[TheUX31EGuy]

when you will start your conversion, and you will get a whole system from hayabusa, can you make a photo of it's throttle bodies. I'm interested in stb it's electric actuator.
I got some plans to use similar system for traction control in my back - but that's only far future plans.

Br

kuba

+1

 

[TheBadOne]

+1

For now my plan is to try to use ignition cut traction control.
During this week I've tested it on Subaru Impreza (using Ecumaster EMU) and... It works.

We done some tests on gravel and wet road and behavior of car was noticably better with traction control engaged.

BR

Kuba

 

[TheBadOne]

Hello

During X-mass another plan was born I didn't have enough place for external fuel pump, so... I'm throwing my coils out! In coils' place there will be fuel pump installed and I decided to go with coil on plugs from ZX6R 00-02. The only suprise was that they're not coils with built-in amplifier but they're classic passive coils. But this mod will allow me to save a lot of place and weight!

BR

Kuba

 

[milos ZX9R]

Hello

During X-mass another plan was born I didn't have enough place for external fuel pump, so... I'm throwing my coils out! In coils' place there will be fuel pump installed and I decided to go with coil on plugs from ZX6R 00-02. The only suprise was that they're not coils with built-in amplifier but they're classic passive coils. But this mod will allow me to save a lot of place and weight!

BR

Kuba

I think you will run into similar problems with external fuel pump as this guy with his 7/10 project http://www.zx-9r.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=40887&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=285

in his words "it was a complete bastard to bleed once you run out of gas"

maybe your set-up will be better than his but - if I may suggest - I would concentrate right away on how to modify 7R tank to accept internal fuel pump

the thing is 7R airbox (in case you are keeping standard airbox and not replacing it with something smaller like 10R airbox) is so large there is very limited space available to enlarge bottom section of the fuel tank

 

[57x]

You could also run a pump like the Z1000. It is a pull through. Although the pump is technically installed in the tank for a Z1000, it is in a dry sump area and uses a nipple to pull the fuel from another part of the tank to the bottom of the pump. I am planning on using a Z1000 pump on mine and mounting it at a similar height and distance from the tank like a Z1000 mounts it. I will see if I can just rotate the pump 90 degrees and see if it will still work.

 

[TheBadOne]

Hello.


For me the simplest solution is to run external Bosch pump. I've never have problems with them. Pump will be mounted lower than fuel tank, so it will be gravity feeded. And there a good side of external pump. I need to get rid of those "old style" ignition coils and switch to coil on plug setup. And with this layout I can leave stock airbox.

BR

Kuba

 

[TheBadOne]

Hello

Coil on Plug setup is ready
Coils are from ZX6R 00-02 - they fit perfectly.
Using this setup with EMU got another big advatage - each coil will have a separate driver, and it will allow me to do individual cylinder ignition trim

BR

Kuba

 

[milos ZX9R]

looks good

 

[Klaus69]

Pretty nice. I like it a lot !

You mentioned that you can do different ignition settings for each cylinder. Did you men this in regards to the higher temperature of the inner cylinders? In carburators there are bigger jets and i thought you can do something simmilar with a little bit longer injection times...

 

[ohjay]

Curious to see how the sticks work out with this project. I believe there was another person who used this and while it worked it wasn't as good as expected.


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[TheBadOne]

Curious to see how the sticks work out with this project. I believe there was another person who used this and while it worked it wasn't as good as expected.


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It depends did these coils were driven properly. Dwell time will surely differ from stock ZX7R coils. If it was used with stock CDI or with aftermarket ignition system which were runing improper parametrs, I'm not suprised that they didn;t work well.

Coil is a coil. Nothing special, If it's not broken and it's charged with proper dwell time, for sure it will work.

BR

Kuba

 

[TheBadOne]

Pretty nice. I like it a lot !

You mentioned that you can do different ignition settings for each cylinder. Did you men this in regards to the higher temperature of the inner cylinders? In carburators there are bigger jets and i thought you can do something simmilar with a little bit longer injection times...

Hello Klaus.

Sorry I didn't noticed your post.

I will trim each cylinder to make a best torque and power. With knock sensor engaged I will track knock combustion during test drives and then I will trim one of two firing cylinders (it'a a wasted spark setup)
Modern sport bikes got ignition map for each cylinder - this allow to use ful potenial of egine. In the past bigger jest were used to prevent knocking (they were providing richer mixture to cylinder) - it was only solution because old style CDI didn't have option to trim ignition for each cylinder. It work but I don't like this solution. Overfueling engine is not to good for it. I would rather prefer ignition trim for each cylinder than triming fuel. Another thing is that - it's much easier to set properly ignition wirh knock sensor than tune air fuel ratio for each cylinder (you need 4 lambda sensors, and they cause some restrictions when they are installed in individual runner for each cylinder)

BR

Kuba

 

[Klaus69]

Hi BadOne thanks for your quick reply which showed that i understood your intention right.

What are your plans for the tutorial: Do you want to give a short overview about all the themes at the beginning and dig later into the details or do you each part at once from the basics to the finer details of the problem?

In regards to the lambda sensor: Wouldn`t it be better to have a single sensor for each cylinder? Otherwise it nows only something about the mixture of the gases of all 4 cylinders.

 

[TheBadOne]

Quick questions - does the lambda sensor work by being polled once per Rev? Or is it 'on' permanently and signalling via an ADC? Just asking because I am curious as to what sort of inputs the ECU gets (4 to 20 mA or 0 to 5V for example). Sorry if I've jumped in, I'm interested to learn is all.
Zed

Hello.

It depends on type of a sensor. If it's Wide Band Lambda sensor it needs additional controller (signal conditioner) - principals of wide band are nicely described here http://www.aa1car.com/library/wraf.htm

Sugnal conditioner always converts Lambda Value (Air Fuel Ratio) to voltage. No matter is it external or internal (built in into ECU) controller. In automotive world common standard is 0-5V, I've never seen current loop 4-20mA (they're rather used in automation). Lambda value as a voltage is given to ECU constantly (the only border is controler itself - how fast can it probe lambda value form sensor)

If it's Narrow Band Sensor you can use simple analog input (ADC) because this type of sensor is giving 0-1 V - it got almost square charakteristic - edge in on Lambda = 1

I hope that I've describe it in quite understandable way.


BR

Kuba

 

[TheBadOne]

Hi BadOne thanks for your quick reply which showed that i understood your intention right.

What are your plans for the tutorial: Do you want to give a short overview about all the themes at the beginning and dig later into the details or do you each part at once from the basics to the finer details of the problem?

In regards to the lambda sensor: Wouldn`t it be better to have a single sensor for each cylinder? Otherwise it nows only something about the mixture of the gases of all 4 cylinders.

Hello Klaus!

My tutorial coverd topics related to ECU choosing. Now I will got deeper into details. Next part will cover sensor wiring.

About lambda sensors in each exhaust manifold runners.... Yes I've made this mistake once. I wanted to tune Fiat Punto S2000 as good as it can be, and we prepared exhaust manifold with 4 sensors, one in each runner. We was very suprised when during first dyno run engine lost over 20hp (from around 270hp to less than 250hp) - it was casued by big restrictions from sensor tip. If You will take a look on the sensor it got quite "big area". When You screw it into quite tight (low diameter) runner, sensor itself covers a big amount of runner area. So that's why sensors are placed in "common pipe".
Second reason is that: small mismatches in airfuel ratio does not have big influence for engine performance - IGNITION DOES!
So if You want to have a really proper infromation about each cylinder work You need to have:
- thermocuuple atached to each runner (they don't cause restrictions)
- knock sensor (one per 2 cylinders is ok)
- fully sequential fuel injection and ignition
With these setup You can perfectly track knock combustion (with properly setup "knock window")

But without sequential ignition it is also possible.
I always use one lambda sesnor for each bank of cylinders (V engines need to have 2 sensors), thermocouples, and knock sensor.
But that's not all. After few test runs it's a good practice to take a look on spark plugs - sometimes they will tell you more than dozens of sensors.
Every tuner got his own methodology of trimming cylinders - but mostly they're basing on expirience and hmmmm something that I call "a feeling of an engine work"

BR

Kuba

 

[Klaus69]

Thanks Kuba, i just try to fill the empty spaces in my knowledge.

On the other hand i like to ask things i think to know just to see if there is another view which i missed before.

Your explanation to the one "one sensor in a small area" proplem works very well for me. One empty space less.

Thank you for your time and patience.

 

[TheBadOne]

No problem. I will be happy to share my knowledge with all of you.

BR

Kuba

 

[TheBadOne]

Hello!

New Year came with new ideas and new setup.

Here's my current pinout configuration (I've switched from stock coils to ZX6R coil on plugs).

All sensors, coils, injectors are connected. Today I plan to wire up clutch switch to use it as flat shift switch, Check Engine light needs to be connected and shift light also.
Now I got only one problem with mounting knock sensor on engine block. Maybe someone got any idea??


BR

Kuba

 

[TheBadOne]

Ok, I will take a look.
Best would be a M8 thread or M8 stud (sensor got 8,2mm hole) but even M6 will be enough.

BR

Kuba

 

[TheBadOne]

Knock sensor can be mounted almost anywhere on cylinder block - bandpass filter and "knock window" will do the rest.

BR

Kuba