Kawasaki Ninja ZX Forum banner

Hot starting / Emissions garbage etc. 1995 ZX7 L3

2 reading
1.1K views 16 replies 5 participants last post by  NinjaZX7Brazil  
#1 ·
My 1995 L3 Basket case Ninja resurrection gets ever further refined, and with the last hurdle of diagnosing a completely shot air filter element (fitted new at the beginning of the reassembly stage 5 years back!). Now we have an "about town sociability" and a smooth 1000-3000rpm progressive acceleration! Trouble is that I have now inherited another problem and this is Starting From Hot. I say "hot" but it is really after cutting the motor for 5-10 minutes, it restarts immediately on a stop /start basis using NO accelerator and restarts easily again after being left for 20-30 mins (but again using NO throttle at all to initially fire it up), but trying to start it on a hot engine after a 4-5 mins. stop is just impossible!
Referring to some other "Ninja" period related posts (mid 90's models) it appears that I'm not alone with this type of problem? One owner commented on a sticking Emissions valve issue on his ZX10, the valve connected to the Carb breather circuit appeared to be faulty? He explained how to eliminate this valve from the system.
I decided to experiment and as explained, plug the vacuum take-off point on the inlets, Plug the Airbox hose entrance from this valve in the airbox and then removed the valve assembly itself and route the Carb breather pipe to atmosphere (behind the Carbs and in the space over the gear box /clutch housing area). My bike, when reassembled started as normal.
When out on a test ride I immediately ran into problems, I had a bike that wouldn't accelerate through mid-range and needed choke applied to accelerate past 3000RPM. Something strange was happening.
The following day I back-tracked and RE-INSTALLED my Carb breather emissions valve set-up. The result was a complete return to normal and engine throttle response giving effortless and smooth acceleration, throughout the Rev- range.
Whilst I had this emissions valve assembly off and in my hands I decided to try a couple of tests. With the help of a second person I found that the valve was indeed functioning But it activated when I BLEW through the vacuum hose ( and this closed it). With atmospheric pressure or a vacuum applied it stayed open. I remain perplexed as to what in fact this valve achieves, how it functions and why my bike runs great with it connected, but runs shite with it removed from the system (with carbs vented to atmosphere).
Any hints as to what I'm doing wrong in trying to eliminate this emissions garbage from the system, and also why my bike hates starting when hot and left for 5 -10 minutes, would be greatly received.
 
#2 ·
What's the color of the spark plugs look like with it removed? If they are black, then your a/f ratio is rich. Another symptom of a rich mixture is being able to start the bike cold without the choke.
 
#6 ·
If, by emissions systems, you are referring to the secondary air system, proper removal of rhe vacuum setup and blocking off the ports has absolutely zero effect on fueling or ignition. You must be leaving something undone for the engine to run so differently with or without the SAS.

All the secondary air system does, by way of a vacuum pot in the intake line and some reed valves in the head cover is to inject a fresh charge of air into the exhaust and dilute the hydrocarbons with oxygen and nitrogen, making the exhaust sample "cleaner". I've removed them from several Kawasaki 4-cylinder machines with no ill effects and better access to the top of the engine for maintenance.
 
#8 ·
Wrap your fuel lines with some form of heat insulation to keep the radiant engine heat from boiling the fuel in the fuel lines. Engine radiant heat temps are the highest for the first 5 minutes after engine shutdown. I believe your issue is vapor lock due to the spike in temperature around the engine for the first few minutes after shutting it off.
 
#9 ·
Thanks to all for the input here. Having since found a few more discussions on this subject on other period Ninjas I'm going down the road of 1/ checking fuel tank vent function, including breather pipe. 2/ thinking seriously on that idea of wrapping the fuel lines from the pump to carbs in some heat-shield material & 3/ Researching this Secondary air system more fully, to get my head around the part at least that vents the carb overflows. This is the part that I tried to eliminate without success. I think that I fully understand the other circuit that directs engine vapours from the cylinder head via reed-valves to the air-box, and I believe this circuit is completely separate from the fuel vapour circuit?
Back to the engine (not carbs) vapours circuit; If I was to remove this one, inserting blanking plates (that I have to hand) I'm wondering if something should be done about the engine breather from the top of the gearbox area (that goes to the airbox via an inversion shut-off valve), at the same time?
 
#10 ·
Thanks to all for the input here. Having since found a few more discussions on this subject on other period Ninjas I'm going down the road of 1/ checking fuel tank vent function, including breather pipe. 2/ thinking seriously on that idea of wrapping the fuel lines from the pump to carbs in some heat-shield material & 3/ Researching this Secondary air system more fully, to get my head around the part at least that vents the carb overflows. This is the part that I tried to eliminate without success. I think that I fully understand the other circuit that directs engine vapours from the cylinder head via reed-valves to the air-box, and I believe this circuit is completely separate from the fuel vapour circuit?
Back to the engine (not carbs) vapours circuit; If I was to remove this one, inserting blanking plates (that I have to hand) I'm wondering if something should be done about the engine breather from the top of the gearbox area (that goes to the airbox via an inversion shut-off valve), at the same time?
The crankcase breather (on top of the transmission) is vented to atmosphere on my L model.

@2fat2fly made a good suggestion to wrap the fuel line in heat shielding material.

Checking the fuel vent on the tank is also a good check. Sometimes the fuel door/cap ceases to vent when pressure builds and the vent sometimes gets clogged.
 
#11 ·
I've checked my fuel cap and tank overflow systems and they are both "clean". I've a spare fuel pump to hand that I tested to see if flow is possible when no current is applied. The pump does not allow flow in these conditions. So my hot starting, if caused by flooding due to heat build-up will probably need me to design a heat-shield to try and protect the fuel lines between pump and carbs. Watch this space!
 
#13 ·
HOT STARTING ISSUES; Time for an update.
After going through each and every carb check and swapping air-filters as I had an old K & N to hand. I next wrapped the fuel line in heat reflective tape (suggestion from 2fat2fly), but the Hot starting problem just persisted.
I was then however surprisingly helped-out by a competent local mechanic (These guys can be cagey about giving out trade secrets down here) and he in his wisdom said " Maybe your problem is NOT Carburetion related, have you checked the Pulser Unit, the problem could be electrical"? So I changed out the pulser unit for a used spare one that was to hand. As the problem only affected Hot starting, and not running, I thought it doubtful. But after fitting it I found that the problem has DISAPEARED!
I ran the bike a few times and took it out on a couple of runs and it behaved itself on every hot start that I tried; but I have now had to park the bike up for a couple of weeks whilst I await the arrival of a new cush-drive rubber, that has just started to show itself on every accelerating away from a cruise situation (upon jacking up the rear end it was found to be absolutely knackered, with about a 10 deg. sloppiness / slack on the rear wheel rotation).
So when the Cush drive arrives I'll change it plus also get the "standard" (Euro-Filter) air-filter put back in as my mechanic mate also tells me that these K&N filters are NOT a good idea on carburetted bikes down here.
So no surprises; once again my little diva seems to be very demanding, she's definitely still high maintenance (time/labour wise at least), and she insists on lots of attention, but I do still love her!
 
#14 ·
HOT STARTING ISSUES; Time for an update.
After going through each and every carb check and swapping air-filters as I had an old K & N to hand. I next wrapped the fuel line in heat reflective tape (suggestion from 2fat2fly), but the Hot starting problem just persisted.
I was then however surprisingly helped-out by a competent local mechanic (These guys can be cagey about giving out trade secrets down here) and he in his wisdom said " Maybe your problem is NOT Carburetion related, have you checked the Pulser Unit, the problem could be electrical"? So I changed out the pulser unit for a used spare one that was to hand. As the problem only affected Hot starting, and not running, I thought it doubtful. But after fitting it I found that the problem has DISAPEARED!
I ran the bike a few times and took it out on a couple of runs and it behaved itself on every hot start that I tried; but I have now had to park the bike up for a couple of weeks whilst I await the arrival of a new cush-drive rubber, that has just started to show itself on every accelerating away from a cruise situation (upon jacking up the rear end it was found to be absolutely knackered, with about a 10 deg. sloppiness / slack on the rear wheel rotation).
So when the Cush drive arrives I'll change it plus also get the "standard" (Euro-Filter) air-filter put back in as my mechanic mate also tells me that these K&N filters are NOT a good idea on carburetted bikes down here.
So no surprises; once again my little diva seems to be very demanding, she's definitely still high maintenance (time/labour wise at least), and she insists on lots of attention, but I do still love her!
When you say "pulsar unit", Are you referring to the ignition rotor or the ignition rotor pickup?
 
#16 ·
Your translation is really good. I think this is the first time I asked for clarification. No need to apologize. I'm glad that you found the solution to your hot start problem and posted it. That's what counts.(y)