QD, i got this from HealTech's webiste under their FAQ hope it helps & if it doesn't, I only confused myself then:

I have an ignition advanced module, can I still use an X-TRE?
YES! X-TRE does not actually change the ignition timing, only forces the ECM to use the best gear map in all gears.
This is why X-TRE works well with any ignition advancer and/or fuel injection module.

Honestly, talking about ignition timing and gear maps are a bit too advanced for my knowledge but I thought this would help since you said if you had a PC Ignition Module it would pretty much throw the X-TRE out the window. Also, the X-TRE should come with 3 user selectable gear maps.

Have you looked into adjustable cam sprockets?

 

Yes I think adjustable cam sprockets are what you'd be looking for. They work wonders in a 4 banger car engine I can tell you that much. NO idea what the appropriate timing change would be for the bike though. Did a little looking and apparently APE used to make them for the zx6 but doesnt anymore, and someone was claiming the cam sprockets in the 6rr models were adjustable and worked in a 6r. Dunno if thats true but might be worth a shot.

 

ahh here we are... http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=368196

 

you can buy set ignition advancers. i think in 2,4,and 6 degree increments. factory pro has them. about $65 . the adjustable cam sprockets are for adjusting cam timing not ignition advance. Two different things. you can change the ignition advance with common hand tools in probally 20-30 mins. i wouldnt suggest messing with the cam timing unless you have a degree wheel and you know how to use it.

 

Thank you N.C.Rider for clearing that up the differences. As I said, I was confusing myself I was sure.....however, an adjustable cam sprocket allows you to tune the engine for more power in low, mid or upper RPM ranges. To move the power peak lower on the RPM scale you advance the cam timing. To move the peak higher you retard the cam timing.

Is this not an option for us all?

 

No No No OH hell no cam timing is a no no and I used to do that shit back in the early 70's when I was street rod'n a dodge dart 340. I'm talking about spark timing only. Why I said the X-TRE would be out the window for the dynojet is the X-TRE has just two options at this time. You can run 6th gear timing curve in all gears or 5th gear timing curve in the first five and it switches to the 6th gear when you go to sixth.

The dyno jet module allows you to custom map each gears timing curve and also each cylinder individually if needed. Considerable DYNO time BIG time to do it right.

With the X-TRE in Place all you really need is to advance the 6th gear or total advance witch that is what 6th gear is in reality. Now that should clear any mud. It's crazy to spend over $300 for a sophisticated piece of hardware to adjust the total advance.

Never mind. I'll call my tuner. He's a drag racer and he will know what I'm talking about.

 

N.C.rider is correct for sure..I just talked to my friend who had the adjustable cam sprockets in his acura and he informed me the shop also changed the ignition timing. This was about 10 years ago, I had driven the car before and after and it was quite a noticeable difference. I dont know how much was due to the ignition timing and how much the sprockets but if you can get half of that improvement for 65 bucks and half an hour ID say go for it! I know Im talking about a car engine but Im guessing it would respond similarily, also being a fairly high revving inline 4.

 

I was not denying N.C. was right, I said myself that I WAS CONFUSED. QD, don't get flustered, not everyone here has your knowledge and experience. After reading your last post, I looked up more info in regards to ignition timing and I now know what you mean. With the work you have done on your bike now, do you expect a big/substantially noticeable increase? Another method I read about was using a knock sensor to find the correct timing...I'm sure you're familiar with that though. Anyways, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, noticed no one was giving you feedback so I thought I'd take a stab at it.

 

I don't know how much more you plan on doing as far as engine work is concerned, but maybe instead of a PC Ignition Module, you could go with a Kawi Adjustable ECU (part# 21175-0145)...it's a bit pricey but again if you plan on putting more money into the bike, this could be the better longterm option for more flexibility when it comes to the tuning side.

 

lol yes I admit to being a lil confused also...and i didnt mean to imply that u were denying n.c was right... Im sure both the ignition timing and cam timing can be tinkered with to suit.

 

Today's shit is got to complicated to work on. Gosh I don't know how many hot rod cars I've set timing without a light just listening to the engine. The best dirt bike I ever had, all I had to do was move a pick up outside the mag. Down on a 2 banger for more top end and up for more low end. Shit was simple in the good ole days Now you got to buy $300 for a box to increase the spark 8-10 degrees. Well screw that. I heard of one case where a late 600 got over 120HP with the basic bolt on stuff we all do but got the timing up. Apparently these bikes are hampered with low timing settings like so many other things we've uncovered and got rid of just like the TRE, opening up the exhaust, the jumper mod and the exhaust block valve and on and on we defeat the efforts of the designers to slow this engine down.

You look at the specs right now and it states 12.5 degrees BTDC at 1300 RPM. Is there any way to turn that up a few degrees stock just like you would turn a distributor in a car? I feel this is very conservative. What if you could take it up to 18.5 and load it up (bog it down) with no pings.

 

let me try to explain this. if you want to be able to adjust your timing per gear then you will need the ignition module. now if you want something like a fixed +2, +4 or +6 on top of the factory curve then you can buy a fixed ignition advance for around $65-$70. i think zx racer has one on his 04. i would prefer the ignition module for the adjust-ability. alot of people say there are a couple of horses hiding in the timing. i dont know because i have never messed with my timing. if im not mistaken poofbegone actually pulled timing and picked up mph. but keep in mind he has a whole diffrent set up. he has head work, cams, thin head gasket. but definately he has the fastest 07 zx6 with no gas that i have heard of. but poof is also a riding mutha. not to many people pulling hight 1.40s and low 1.50s 60ft times on a stock wheelbase zx6r.

 

to put this in perspective... a guy names poof begone on a few other sites is running +1 degree at the TOP of the 6 with 87 octane!!!!! that mite not sound like much, but when your talkin a 13.9:1 motor adding timing from stock on 87 octane fuel... thats a big thing, especially at 15k rpm. his bike makes over 125rwhp with stock internals, he does have kit cams and thin head gasket.

There is power to be made in these bikes, it just takes some ingenuity and above all.... cash.

 

I have a PCIII now and after looking at the PC Ignition Module, I wish I would of just went with the Kawi ECU. Would of saved me $$ for all the adjustments and plus I probably wouldn't get as much crap in regards to warranty work then.

 

THe kawi ecu is a WHOLE nother animal, its the intereface cord is 400$ for it after u buy the ecu, then u need a harness adapter or a after market harness, then u gotta find someone to tune it, because they are NOT for the average do it yourselfer. Its much cheaper, and easier to get the ECU and ignition module from dynojet, they're much easier to tune with, and i got mine for 230$ shipped... theyre out there for good prices if you look.

 

Well it's money time again. I'll get this sucker one day soon and yank the timing advance up then. Looks like there is no other way around it.

THE END! No use in continuing this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Everyone keeps talking about these advances. Will someone please come up with a place that sells them. You can find some for old relics but not for no 07/08 bikes. So show me what you are talking about please.

I just don't think they are out there.

 

i just looked at the factory pro web site. they dont appear to have one for the 07-08, so the ignition module is probally your only choice, unless you want to spend the cash on a kit ecu.

 

QD, where are you looking to pickup your PC Ignition Module if you get one? I can't find anything on ebay so it looks like I'll be paying MSRP unless someone has the knowledge or hookup.

 

poof from my convos with him, has added timing across the board on his set up... but probably not as much as someone with a stock head set up, as he's running a higher comp due to his head gasket. Im sure he has his bike tuned on the ragged edge though

 

These machines come soo close to perfect timing all u can squeeze out of one is at most .7 hp at the top. Ive installed a bunch of the timing module's in peoples bike's including mine and my dyno guy couldn't get more than .4 hp out of it.(so u all know i work at a repair and service shop for motorcycles).
but it might not add much power what they do is make the power curve more linear u lose the little flat spots u have in the curve.

 

lol no they're not, your tuner just sucks

 

I talked to my tuner and he told me that he installs them and he's had good luck with them more so on on the larger displacement bikes but you have to be willing to spend some time and set up of the machine is critical because it's har to capture the short bursts like in first for example it happens so fast he has to completely reconfigure from what it's set up for normally doing 5th gear dyno testing. Sample rate is the big thing about the machine. He said it's all up to the tuner willingness to take the time to do it right.

Yes it can be done and yes you can possibly gain 3 maybe 4 HP out of it. MAYBE!!!