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Spark Plug Issue

9.7K views 41 replies 9 participants last post by  jowek70  
#1 ·
So I pulled apart the bike this weekend to do a few things....install my ignition advancer and new plugs.
The advancer was no sweat, smoothed out the throttle alot.
Now the plugs.....
3 of the plugs looked great, they had nice, charcoal brown marshmallow color on the tip.
1 plug, the trouble plug......if you're looking at the bike, head on, its the 2nd piston from the right and 3rd from the left......it was brown masrhmallow color.....underneath some fresh oil.....
my heart stopped when I saw this....
it wasn't coated or burned on it, but it looked like it had been quickly dipped into a quart of oil.....the oil was clean too....
What are some causes of this? Gasket failure? Piston ring failure?
The bike doesn't smoke at all. It has a slight miss between 2k and 4k, every gear. When you go over 4k it runs normally.
I need some help....its almost the end of the season, and the weather's been cold. Any ideas?
 
#2 ·
Relax, it's probably a minor fix

Did you by chance remove the valve cover recently? When the cover is removed the valve cover O-rings sometimes pop out of symmetry and need to be aligned before putting the cover back on. Either way, you may just need one of these O-rings. There are four of course. You can see two of them in Calamari Chris' pic.

Image
 
#3 ·
I haven't had the valve cover off at all.
Its possible that these rings may need replaced. My bike has 28k on it now.
Is this a pretty simple install?
just pop off the tank and air box, pop off the valve cover and replace the o-rings?
 
#4 ·
Yup. Pretty simple. And like E1 said if it wasn't burnt on then it was most likely just oil that ran down into the hole and got on the plug as it came out.
 
#5 ·
yeahhhh, no. Just to get the valve cover off, you're gonna find it's a lot more drawn out than that. You can tell if you look at Chris' how-to pictures <here>. (I recommend that you bookmark a link to his site). The carbs need to be popped out and all the plumbing and wiring on top of the valve cover needs to be disconnected as well. Fanangling the valve cover out from between the frame sides with the plumbing nearby is a major be-otch too! :tard

The O-ring replacement itself is idiotically simple. Getting to it is the bear.

Consider doing the valve clearance check while you've got it to this point at the very least, since it has 28K on it and has never had it's valve cover off??? :headscratch

Fun stuff, just for a little O-ring, eh?
 
#6 ·
...Fanangling the valve cover out from between the frame sides with the plumbing nearby is a major be-otch too! :tard...
Oh yeah, I forgot about that part.

And that damn heat sheild can be a bitch too. As I recall there are some hard to get to bolts way up front to remove it?

...Consider doing the valve clearance check while you've got it to this point at the very least, since it has 28K on it...
Very good point. Even if the previous owner did one valve adjust, it is probably overdue for the second check.
 
#7 ·
oh boy...this might have to wait till i have time over the winter....the bike only has a few more days outside before storage....
thanks for the help though, i'm definately gonna do as much as i can before i get it all back together.....
since i have to mess with the carbs i can put my jet kit and synch them....
how do you adjust the valves?
any links or how-tos on that?
 
#8 ·
Jowek, the B model is not bad on adjusting valves. There's quite a bit more room to maneuver than the later bikes. You DO NOT have to pull the cams as you have finger followers and your shims are exposed. I know there are write ups around for the later bikes, do everything the same except check the clearance between the shim and follower not cam and follower. I've heard of some online service manuals as well. Also I think your spark plug gaskets are paired rather than singles like the C, E and F, but I'm not sure.
 
#9 ·
alright well heres the part numbers i'm going to replace with cheap cycle parts .com

plug gasket - 11060A x 4
Head cover gasket - 11060 x 1
25.5x2 o-ring - 92055A x 4

Are these correct or will I need more/less?
 
#10 ·
Alright i went on a ride to the local kaw dealer and picked up:

head cover gasket
0-ring 25.5x2

I'm pretty sure i'll need these parts so I went ahead and ordered them.
Anything else I should replace/check while i'm in there?
 
#11 ·
If your dealer has shims, see if they have many sizes available. Mine are generally 2.85 x 7.5. Not saying you'll even have to replace any, but if you have access to a car, knowing where you can get the ones you need will be important while the bike is in 10,000 pieces in your garage.

Maut is correct. Your B3 should be really easy to replace valve shims on.
 
#13 ·
no smoke on startup or ever.
never smoked since i've owned it.
no oil other than on the plug tip itself.
no oil in filter or intake.
exhaust smells the same as it has.
but it misses below 4k....
i assume the plug isn't firing properly, but its weird, cause it still has great power above 4k and doesnt smoke .......
i guess i'll find out when i pull the head apart......well the valve cover at least...
any other thoughts?
 
#14 ·
I may have misinterpreted...

Where is the oil on the plug? Is it above the threads external to the combustion chamber or below the threads in the combustion chamber?
 
#16 ·
So like this then?

Image


This is an example of an ash fouled plug:

A build-up of combustion deposits stemming primarily from the burning of oil and/or fuel additives during normal combustion, normally non-conductive. When heavier deposits are allowed to accumulate over a longer mileage period, they can "mask" the spark, resulting in a plug misfire condition. See this Web page for other spark plug coloring examples.

Dman's recommendation is correct. Replacing the valve cover gaskets will have no affect, since the spark plug gallery (hole) is probably dry and clean (right?). It's more than likely a worn valve guide oil seal and if so, you're due for an overhaul of the cylinder head. :banghead Symptoms will be above normal oil usage and if you pull the carbs and exhaust header you should be able to see oil fouling in one or more ports. In this case, usually on the exhaust valve guides, b/c they're hotter and the oil seal will become brittle and crack.
 
#17 ·
Thats why I grabbed a valve cover gasket, I'm planning on rebuilding the head this winter, adjusting valves, synch carbs, install jet kit, new header........
but that isn't what my plug looked like at all.
it had WET oil on it.....like it had just been dipped in a quart of oil.....
it was very clean underneath the oil....actualy aside from the touch of oil on it, it was a good looking plug.
I'm still goin to rock the head this winter though, new gaskets all around.
Anything else I should change/check while I'm in there?
 
#20 · (Edited)
Good man! :thumbup Yes, grind new valve seats. Hammerhead always touts a two or three angle. I forget. PM him or just ask around. Your compression and HP will go up as a result.

Okay, now I know what your talking about. They look like my 2-stroke SeaDoo's plugs then. So I'm changing it to an intake guide boot failure, just like what I'd see on my oil injected watercraft.
 
#18 ·
Also you can really bring the issue to light if you short run the engine (1 minute or less) ,from dead cold, then shut it down and allow to set for a bit. Upon cold start next time you'll notice a puff of blue smoke. The short run from cold will send a high qty of oil to the cylinder head due to higher pressure resulting from higher rpm choke running RPM. Try it...start the bike for 20 seconds on choke...shut it down for 4-5 hours and restart. The oil that pooled in the head during the initial start will seep faster and to a larger degree past the guides (if worn) and put out a better seen display of smoke. Get someone to stand behind the bike and see if anythings visible after doing this. Not the BEST approach technically...but it works.
 
#21 ·
How hard of a fix is that?
and it is running on all 4 cylinders, just by the sound of it, but it has a slight miss, from the plug not being able to fire exactly....
it rides great still and still has the power, but its just different....
so i'm going to do some work this off season then....
how far into the head do i have to go to change this part? should i take it in to have it done?
 
#23 ·
I have seen this issue numerous times on cars that I have repaired. If the tip of the plug (the part that lives inside the cylinder head) does not have burned oil on it. It is the spark plug tube seal. What happens is when this seal leaks the oil will puddle around the plug. Then when you unscrew the plug the oil leaks down the plug covering the end including the tip. When you removed the problem plug did oil get on the socket. If so this further confirms that the spark plug tube seal is leaking. When this seal leaks it also comtaminates the plug wire/coil which brakes down the rubber and leads to misfires. Also if the engine does not smoke at all and I mean not even a tiny bit ever and it does not use oil between oil changes you can be fairly certain that it is the spark plug tube seals. Thats my $.02
 
#24 ·
you nailed it.
thanks for the help, i got my gaskets in today so i'm hoping next weekend to make alittle project out of this....
it'd be nice to get rid of this misfire before i get my header and jet kit installed....
 
#25 ·
Well, I got the carbs and cam cover off.
Everything inside looks great, the cams look good, there's a good amount of oil on everything (it was kinda warm still when i pulled it apart).
Plug #2 is the oil plug. The threads of the plug have very little, if any oil on them. The plug itself, where the plug wire connects, has a coat of oil on it.
Does this indicate a problem with the spark plug gasket maybe?
The plug was dirty, but it wasn't wet, probably because most of the oil had burned off?
Where should I go from here?
I can get new spark plug gaskets and I have the o-rings for below, but I think that means the head has to come off?
Please help.
 
#26 ·
#29 ·
Sorry, I tried searching for a good pic and ran out of time. Basically it is going to be very obvious once you get the valve cover off.
 
#30 ·
just go for it, there pretty easy to see, and there the only ones in there. If i remember right they have a little spring inside the gasket. There a pain to get out, I just grabbed them with some dikes as i wasn't trying to save them.