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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all ... today when I pressed the starter button to see if my ZX would fire up for me, I got the dreaded buzzing / skipping (solenoid?) sound ... like the battery was really weak ... but the battery and battery connections seemingly ain't the problem as it turns out ...
I've never tracked down the starter/solenoid location(s) or heavy (AWG2 or 4 or whatever was used stock by Kaw.) cable connections at the starter/solenoid end of things with this m/c and now need a little guidance on how best to access / check same.
As I mentioned, I checked the battery connections (they seemed OK, I tightened them anyways --> still no joy), then pulled the battery and checked it - it's OK too.
Then I grabbed a good automotive 12V battery and some jumper cables and tried again --> no joy ... also tried a frame grounding point instead of the NEG cable ground --> no joy either.
Looks like I gotta' go downstairs and figure out if I have a connection / sulphation issue at the starter/solenoid, or, (a) bad starter / solenoid unit(s)(the latter h/w failures seem unlikely ... to me, anyways).
Thanks for any insights / help offered ... FFF
 

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Relatively easy to access the lug on the starter. Hook a jumper straight to that lug, a good ground, and a good battery and see if the starter cracks over. If it does then you can check that off. Next is the thick wire from there up to the starter relay. Clean connections and if you still have a problem it is the starter relay. Pretty cheap.
 

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You said the battery "seemingly" wasn't the problem. Did you remove it and have it tested? Does it take and hold a full charge?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hey all ... so, I don't know why I didn't get back to my own thead here back in March of '16 ... perhaps I was unaware of the 3 fellow member Replies? ... due incorrect notification setting when I created the thread? Sure as shit don't remember now ... my apologies to sosasser, Hammerhead & Cableguy ...

So, I never did get the m/c running back in '16 ... it's still sitting in my garage waitin' on me and collecting dust (quick backgrounder: I crashed this '96 ZX1100-D4 m/c into the back of a Jetta on 08MAY14 and it has many issues [as does its' owner] ... now, with all this COVID-19 business, I seem to have lots of time on my hands so ... ) ... I can see from my 13MAR16 physical notes that I successfully completed a 'Starter Relay Inspection' (page 254 [15-33], 'Ninja ZX-11, ZZ-R1100 Service Manual' ['ZX11_Service_93_01 P. No. 99924-1159-07.pdf']). I have an FYI note on my PC dated 27MAR16 directing me to the page to perform a 'Fuel Pump Relay Internal Resistance' test (page 259 [15-38] of the S.M.), however, I have no other physical notes to indicate whether I performed said test, or, if I did, what the results may have been.

FYI - the last time I went after this project, I did not have the meter assembly attached to the wiring harness ... this time I do ... (4-pin & 9-pin connectors ... the 6-pin forward lighting connector is not attached to anything [fairing / lights all smashed to ratshit]) ... in case it was tripping me up. The clutch handle assembly and clutch hydraulic line / system are all pooched back as far as the slave cylinder at the engine, so, the clutch cannot be disengaged presently.

sosasser, back in '16, I do remember following your suggestion to put +12VDC straight to the starter lug / cable (& -12VDC to the ground cable end), and, if I recall correctly, the starter motor cranked OK ... however, four years later, I'm not positive about that.
Hammerhead, the stock battery is perhaps suspect, however, today I believe I eliminated that possibility by using a fully-charged automotive battery and jumper cables ... I'm still getting the buzzing / skipping sound when I press the starter button ... this time I recorded the sound with my phone and will post the MP4 file --> doh! MP4 file attachment not allowed here ... it's only 19 seconds long but still 39 MB in size ... I can 4Shared it if anyone wants to listen.
Cableguy, as I've thought more about all this recently, the fact that the m/c has been sitting a long time (2~ years when I first started this thread, now, another 4 years has gone by, so, it's been sitting now 6~ years without having been successfully started and run - my garage is relatively dry but not heated ... if left out, anything easily susceptible to rust will show slight signs of same at the end of a winter season) ... this got me to thinking that maybe the engine has seized up internally somewhat ... from ambient humidity ... perhaps enough to defeat the starter motor's torque ... is that where you were headed with that last Q. of yours?

So, not being all that familiar with this engine, I don't know exactly where to access a suitable location on either end of the crankshaft to bar the engine over with hand tools (I have a couple of 1/2" drive breaker bars that should offer enough leverage [and a good selection of 12-point regular & deep metric sockets]) ... meantime, I thought to try dropping the m/c into 1st gear and turn the engine over by hand, pulling up on the rear wheel, in a forward rotational direction, however, perhaps this notion is futile - opinions?

Something else I tried today (that I now regret) was to jumper +12VDC power to the 'M'otor side of the Starter Relay with (all wiring hooked up and) ignition key 'On' ... I heard a distinctive little 'pop' sound coming from the vicinty of the 'Junction Box' and / or 'IC Igniter'. I've checked all the fuses under the removable panel at the top of the Junction Box - they're all good, as is the 'Main Fuse 30A' at the 'Starter Relay' - so, the sound I heard was probably 1 of the 3 diodes within the 'Junction Box' blowing - doh! Anybody been down this path before?

Thanks for any guidance offerred, and, be well ... FFF

P.S.
I noticed today that Kawi Forums is looking damn near identical to this forum ... are they now one and the same?
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
So ... despite nobody chiming in here, I'll update this thread so others can benefit and I can at least refer back to it 4 years from now ... (hopefully not - I want to ride it sooner rather than later)
After removing the airbox and spark plugs, and, squirting oil in the spark plug holes, I was easily able to turn the engine over (turning CCW from the left side after removing the rotor ['pulsing'] cover using a 1/2" drive ratchet and a 24mm socket) - so, no engine seizure, whatsoever.
It turns out that with the clutch master cylinder / resevoir / handle assembly off the m/c, the integral Starter Lockout Switch is not present and cannot provide the necessary continuity on the Black w. Yellow stripe wire to the Black wire circuit (normal condition: Clutch Lever Pulled In, switch plunger extended). The Black w. Red stripe wire and Black wire circuit pair (normal condition: Clutch Lever Released, switch plunger depressed) allows cranking only in Neutral ... with that circuit functioning normally (this functionality possibly also meter-assembly electrical connection dependant) - anyways, for now, I have starter actuation and cranking with the B/Y & B pair bridged with a paper clip at the SLS wiring connector on the m/c.
So, what I was hearing before (the buzzing / skipping sound), was the electric fuel pump (running dry) - it is designed to run at every starter button push, and, whenever fuel pressure drops below a certain level with the engine running.
Next issue, safely deliver fuel to the main fuel line (with the tank removed), and, most importantly, to the dry fuel pump, before attempting to crank the engine further ... with all spark plugs out, loose, snapped into their respective high tension leads and the s.p. bases all effectively grounded ... so I can check the IC Igniter function ... a component about which I am quite concerned ... based on the 'pop' sound I heard when I jumpered +12VDC power to the 'M'otor side of the Starter Relay with (all wiring hooked up and) ignition key 'On', as described earlier. If that test is passed, I'll reassemble everything to the point where I can test run the engine and further determine if the 'pop' sound I heard was a diode(s - in / under the junction box?) blowing ... if it (they) are defective, that should present as generator / voltage regulator issues and a failure to charge the 12VDC system - any thoughts about this eventuality? and the necessary troubleshooting procedure(s)?

Thanks, FFF
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So ... despite still nobody chiming in here, I'll update this thread so others can benefit and I can refer back to it later ...

20JUL20 - finally got around to my IC Igniter function test ... strong cranking and spark at all four spark plugs (with fuel supplied to fuel pump), so, that's a relief ... I don't need to bring a replacement IC Igniter in from the Netherlands ...

I'm in the process of reassembling everything (got stopped by the absence here at home of some of my tools that are on my boat) to the point where I can test run the engine and further determine if the 'pop' sound I heard was a diode(s - in / under the junction box?) blowing ... if it (they) are defective, that should present as generator / voltage regulator issues and a failure to charge the 12VDC system - any thoughts about this eventuality? and the necessary troubleshooting procedure(s)?

Thanks, FFF
 

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Discussion Starter #8
... 24JUL20 - she runs!!! Now to test the generator / voltage regulator functionality and put the suspected diode(s) issue to rest ... and ... finish putting together the hydraulic clutch master cylinder / lever assembly, custom-fabricated hydraulic line to slave cylinder and bleed that system ... FFF
 

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I just saw this thread I’ve been working on my ZX 10 R for the last week went out to start it one day and all I got was a click, click, click, every once in a while it I would get the ClickClickClicking I’ll try and post a little vid to show where I’m at. My question is when I took the starter out and hit it with the jumper cables all I got was sparks. It didn’t engage the armature or whatever, but I could turn it with my hand? I’m not a mechanic but am learning and wanna learn but am lost. I would assume starter is bad since the cables didn’t make it zing but on the other hand since I turned it with my hand I thought, well guess it does work. Any thoughts or suggestions? I took starter apart but have no idea what I’m looking at. Brushes seem to be at the standard 12.05 mm roughly??? Any direction would be greatly appreciated. 62735708845__8347408F-6607-4BC1-9CB9-BF49F1E0A4A3.MOV
 

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OK
First of your MOV won't work pasting it in the thread you need to host it elsewhere and link to it or pop it on Youtube and share it here.
A picture or 2 would be right handy (y)
For the most part starters stop working either because the Brushes no longer contact the Commutator or the Commutator is so dirty the Brushes no longer make an Electrical connection.
It will turn over by hand even with these faults, That just tells you it hasn't locked up internally.
I've just rebuilt a ZX12R starter that died, New Brushes and Commutator undercut and clean the whole shebang jobs a good'n



 

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Discussion Starter #11
Swollzilla ... if you've read through this thread, you'll know that due to a 4 year gap in my t/s efforts, I believe I got starter cranking in 2016 when I put power directly to the starter's heavy '+' cable but wasn't entirely sure as I could not specifically remember doing it. From a fully-installed state with all electrical connections made, I would caution you to isolate the '+' side of the starter before bypassing the starter relay as I did - I got away with it ... I think. I'm still not certain that I didn't damage diodes somewhere, as I heard a distinctive 'pop'ping sound when I put power directly to the starter relay end of the starter '+' cable - with all (other) connections still made.
If you have the wherewithall to remove and dismantle the starter, then I suspect you were capable of a proper bench test of the starter (out of the m/c). If it wouldn't activate and briefly spin fast during a bench test, then it must have issues that I myself have never delved into. When you dismantled the starter, I hope you were careful to do no harm, as spinning a main terminal without locking it in place using an appropriate tool could do real damage to internal components.
You may want to start your own thread and zero in on starter t/s procedures ... and do yourself a favour and make sure you have the appropriate shop manual ... in my case, I used 'Ninja ZX-11, ZZ-R1100 Service Manual' ['ZX11_Service_93_01 P. No. 99924-1159-07.pdf'].
FFF
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ahhh ... KevA posted while I was composing ... he has real world starter rebuild experience and will hopefully help you along better than I could.
Swollzilla ... you should start your own thread too. FFF
 

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Guys I absolutely appreciate all the info!! And as far as my bike being disassembled it’s my first time doin anything like this, so thanks!! Luckily I have a brain that functions so so and common sense (which doesn’t seem to be as common as it used too lol)
I’ll go ahead and start a thread. I was just trying to not to bother anyone, especially without looking first. Thank you for the different avenues of direction to consider. Beautiful day again and I’m missing it😭
 

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Discussion Starter #14
n.p. ... that starter actually looks pretty good (almost damn good) inside to me, hopefully you didn't miss something fundamental on your bench test ... like checking the continuity of the cables you're using and providing a good ground to a known good power source ... like maybe a fully-charged 12V car battery ... good luck with your progress and in your new thread ... maybe post the link to it here, FFF
 

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Sorry to have been absent fellaz. Update. So check it out. I put this starter bk together after very little cleaning (because it wasn’t that dirty and the brushes are like new) of course afterwards when finished I threw the ol jumper cables to her again... and nothing new. More of same, sparks few but no spinning. The next thing I did, in my minds fu**** up thinkin is, dropped it to the ground from waste high. Low and behold I hooked the cables bk up, tapped the started and zing!! It did what it’s supposed to do! That being said I’m throwing the bike back together to see what happens. Doesn’t make sense to me bc obviously there’s a problem somewhere within the started and im gonna have to get one ASAP. I’ll post bk Wednesday or Thursday when I have the time to complete assembly and letcha know if it starts. At that point if it doesn’t turn over/fire up I’ll start my own Thread on the subject with pics. Thanks again guys!! The help you did offer and opinions were tremendously appreciated!! Hope you all have a blessed day and be safe out there!!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Good work Swollzilla ... LOL ... I agree ... there must be some major, intermittent loss of continuity internal to that starter ... did you ever find a shop manual and follow the factory t/s procedures?
If you're not inclined to follow the t/s route, definitely get yourself a replacement starter ... I don't know about you but I wouldn't care to assemble everything and then find that it doesn't want to work. FFF
 
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