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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Put here any available price depending on country and/or delaer, just to have comparisment on one place...

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Price in France - 16.000 euro
 

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Price in France - 16.000 euro
Hey Sledge, where did you get that number? I have been scouring the internet trying to find a price without much success.:headscratch

There is one Canadian dealer I've found that has a price listed of $16,999 Canadian dollars, which is about $14,500 USD for the C-14 ABS. Personally, that sounds about what I would expect to pay in the US...

Here's the link: http://www.motosportnewman.com/client/page1.asp?clef=2&page=59&p=1.71300542354584

No offense, but I sure hope you are wrong. 16,000 euros is approximately $21,300 USD and they wont sell many at that price over here...:angry
 

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$22,000 Australian Dollars about $18,000US Available in May 2007. Plus another $1300 Australian to register and put it on road...
 

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Put here any available price depending on country and/or delaer, just to have comparisment on one place...

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Price in France - 16.000 euro
Can you tell how that compares to the FJR1300? So us foreigners can make a comparison for our country?
16.000 euro would be a steal :rofl in The Netherlands. My guess is that we have to pay about 18.000 euro's :banghead
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I didn't meant to compare that with FJR, but I found price of 16.000 euros in France on one french site (I'll look for it now again...), when I looked for some newer specs about GTR 1400.

And comparing price in France and Canada will not go on, because it's two different worlds... Canada is, together with US, one advantaged market, like Holy Grail (because of their's homologation standards, and they extort producers to be cheaper with that sistem), and that's what prices in Canada will be usually lower than in Europe, both EU or non-EU.
 

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Hmmmm, Well my high school French is a little rusty, but the site appears to be a magazine style site, rather than a dealer or Kawasaki corporate associated page. No offence, Sledge, but If I'm translating correctly, that was written back in December of 2006, and they appear to be speculating on the price.

I'm not saying that they, or you, are incorrect on the price. I just wish Kawi would release an MSRP. If it is over $15,000 USD for the ABS model, I'm no longer interested...

If you guys have to pay that kind of premium for Japanese bike in Europe, I can't imagine what a Harley Davidson must go for over there...:dunno
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As regards price, it's same to me is it correct or not. I just brought what I found. As regards Your thinking, it is not same as mine, because You're living in US, and to we have here in Europe so cheap bikes as you have them in US, I'd cover myself with ears and not to release one single tone about high prices...

Harley is very expensive, but one reason for ease a decision "to buy HD or not", and what Harley doesn't meet too much buyers in Europe, is what it has not too high quality. It is on level such as italian bikes, especially Ducati, which needs somebody to follow You and collect nuts and bolts (and Harley is too much on too expensive services)... one Electra Glide is here about 30.000 euros in Croatia, or 39.700 US$, for what I can buy two really good and masive bikes, and for its "legendary" I don't care, and it doesn't mean nothing to me. Or I can buy one Gold Wing, which is technically one lightyear in front od HD. But we have to concentrate on our topic... :mfclap

ZZR-1400 costs in Croatia, with full equipment, 105.900 kuna's, or 19,150 US$. That means we espect for GTR 1400 price between 115.000 and 120.000 croatian kuna's, or between 20.800 and 21.700 US$. That's also very tight to BMW R 1200 GS, which is main and only opponent to my life wish... :eek:hno :eek:hno :eek:hno :eek:hno :eek:hno :eek:hno :eek:hno
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wow, I didn't realize that bikes cost that much more in Europe. I feel lucky that they don't cost that much here.

As for the Harley thing, Sledge, don't worry, because a lot of people here in the USA don't "get it" either. If that was the only brand to ride, I probably would not ride. It is really a separate culture, and from my perspective, the people who buy them do so not so much for the bike itself, as to be a part of that culture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
As a comparison to Europe and USA, take also one american product, Hummer H3. It costs about 30.000 US$ in America, what is about 23.000 euro. In Europe it will be very hard to buy it under 45-50.000 euros!! That's the reason many people, from some countries in EU, buy them in US over net or order over factory, than pay transfer with ship to Amsterdam, and zhere take it and drive home. With all legally payments, they still save cca 10.000 euros in pocket... but mostly problem is homologation, because american and european models are different as regarding many sistems, so most of the cars and bikes can not pass technical controls in Europe, and so are european models more expensive.

So, You do are lucky dude to have so cheap motorisation around.
 

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Hey now, don't be so predigest about all Harley Davidson riders.

I grew up on Suzuki's, and used to have the same poor opinion of the HD line. I remember going into my Suzuki dealer, who also sold HD, and seeing drip pans under the brand new Harleys.

But that was 20 years ago...

In 2000, I rode my first modern Harley. I put 60,000 miles on that bike, and didn't have one single problem. I have 20,000 miles on my current Harley, and no issues yet. They are not what they used to be.

I haven't had any pieces fall off either...

As far as the high service cost, you're right. If you let the dealer do it, it's going to be expensive. But, if you can read at the 8th grade level, and have basic hand tools, you can do all the services yourself.

Buying a lifestyle?

You could be partially right on that one. Some people buy a Harley as a garage decoration, dress up like a pirate on the weekend, and only ride the bike to the local bar to stand out front, and try to look cool.

But let's be honest here.

There are folks who buy sport bikes and dress up as Power Rangers on the weekends.

They go to the same bar and try to look cool too. Most have zero riding skills, and have absolutely no clue how to handle the 200 horsepower bike they are on...

Okay, sorry for the thread drift... Back on topic.

I'll bet the C14/1400GTR MSRP is well under $15,000 :clap
 

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I don't think we have the right to complain. The Danish have, though. They pay e.g. 43.000 USD for an R1!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Buying a lifestyle?

You could be partially right on that one. Some people buy a Harley as a garage decoration, dress up like a pirate on the weekend, and only ride the bike to the local bar to stand out front, and try to look cool.

But let's be honest here.

There are folks who buy sport bikes and dress up as Power Rangers on the weekends.

They go to the same bar and try to look cool too. Most have zero riding skills, and have absolutely no clue how to handle the 200 horsepower bike they are on...
Okay, let's be honest here.

The vast majority of people who choose Harley do so because of the strong tie that the Harley brand has to that culture. Few people who have no inclination to belong to that culture, choose to buy a Harley.

As for the riding garb, I never thought of the typical sport bike rider as dressing up as a power ranger, and that strikes me as a surreptitious way to ridicule helmets and other protective riding gear. The gear that most sport bike riders wear, tends to be highly functional, offering a meaningful measure of protection in the event of a crash. That is in stark contrast to the head scarves and chaps that most of the Harley people wear.

I have nothing against anyone hanging out in bars as long as they are sober when they get back on the bike. But, I will note that while there are a few places where sport bike riders are known to congregate, along favorite riding routes for weekend mornings or even popular night spots on Saturday nights, that doesn't compare to the phenomenon of "biker bars". Nowadays, you can find a "biker bar" in virtually every little strip mall, and lots more scattered along the highways. You can go past them just about any time day or night, and you will see mostly Harleys sitting outside. There is one such bar located a mile to the south of me, and another located a mile or two to the north. There can be little doubt that a significant portion of the Harley traffic that I hear going by, is people going from one to the other, with a significant portion of those people having blood alcohol levels exceeding the legal limit.

The question of riding skills is not nearly as cut and dry. Certainly there are a lot of younger sport bike riders that don't have adequate riding experience or skills. But there is nothing honest about the statement: "Most have zero riding skills". Moreover, I don't see evidence for any significant difference in skill level among younger/newer sport bike riders and younger/newer Harley riders. I see a lot of younger sport bike riders, riding like idiots, and I see a lot of Harley riders, riding like idiots. Inexperienced riders ought not be riding bikes with as much power as many of them have, but inexperienced riders are also not well served by bikes that handle as poorly as Harleys and similar bikes are known to handle. But, there is one aspect of this where I do see a difference, which is with the adherence to superstitious ideas about riding techniques. For example, every once in a while I overhear a conversation where one rider is relating to another about the time that he "had to lay it down". Superstitious nonsense of this sort is a part of that culture, which cultivates a host of nonsensical beliefs and related practices, to include the belief that those ridiculous-looking chaps are going to offer any significant measure of protection in a crash, and the ridiculous notion that is better to wear a head scarf than a helmet, because helmets obstruct your vision, or whatever. Wear a scarf instead of a helmet, wear chaps instead of functional riding pants, ride a bike that handles like crap, make as much noise as you can so as to annoy as many people as possible while riding back and forth between your two favorite biker bars while pretending that beer doesn't diminish your riding skills.

Now, don't be offended. After all, you did say, "let's be honest here".
 

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Not offended in the least, in fact I welcome the dialogue.

What does trouble me a bit are the riders who will dismiss another group of riders, en masse, based solely on their choice of motorcycle.

The vast majority of people who choose Harley do so because of the strong tie that the Harley brand has to that culture. Few people who have no inclination to belong to that culture, choose to buy a Harley.
Really? And this statement is based on what? Do you have empirical data to show this to be factual? Or, more likely, is this your observation, and personal opinion of riders who chose to ride Harleys?

Now I’m not trying to come off as a jerk here, and I will capitulate somewhat on your premise. Harley Davidson has been hugely successful in marketing “a lifestyle” to some of their customers. Take a stroll through any of the large boutique style Harley dealers, and you will find more floor space dedicated to “Motor Clothes” than you will find floor space occupied by motorcycles. The parts counter is almost an afterthought tucked into a corner at the back of the store.

The problem I have with your statement are the words “The vast majority of people…” Lumping every Harley rider into one stereotype is simply an uninitiated assertion

I personally ride with six different friends, five of which ride Harleys. None of us wear less than a ¾ DOT and Snell approved helmet, and I often wear a full face Nolan when riding. And yes, I do wear a black leather jacket. However, it is bereft of any belts, studs, patches or other bangles. What it does have is a zip out liner for warmth, vents for cooling and most importantly, armor in the elbows, shoulders and spine.

As for the riding garb, I never thought of the typical sport bike rider as dressing up as a power ranger, and that strikes me as a surreptitious way to ridicule helmets and other protective riding gear. The gear that most sport bike riders wear, tends to be highly functional, offering a meaningful measure of protection in the event of a crash. That is in stark contrast to the head scarves and chaps that most of the Harley people wear.
Again, I will capitulate, but only in part. IMHO, a quality helmet and leathers should be worn when riding, and as I stated above, I wear both. That being said, how many riders do you see trying to buy into another lifestyle, that of the professional motorcycle racer? I mean really, does anyone need a florescent neon set of leathers with plastic disks sewn to the knees and a lump on the back to aid in aerodynamics when riding on the street? Aren’t these riders simply imitating what they see on the Speed Channel, and impersonating someone else?

I do agree with your opinion of riders, who protest wearing a helmet, and make ridiculous assertions that helmets cause neck injuries, obstruct your vision, and other such claptrap.

I shake my head sometimes when I will watch one of my fellow Harley riders in his pirate costume get ready to ride. First, they have to mess with the earplugs. Next, the doo-rag has to be tied in place. Then comes the novelty half helmet that is only worn to satisfy the local helmet laws. After that, the goggles get strapped on (after the helmet comes off, whoops, he got things out of order). And if it’s cold, the face scarf (with the obligatory skull motif) gets tied on just under the nose.

I can put my helmet on in 30 seconds or less, and it will actually provide some protection in the event of an accident, as well as keep the wind and bugs out of my eyes and ears.

I have nothing against anyone hanging out in bars as long as they are sober when they get back on the bike. But, I will note that while there are a few places where sport bike riders are known to congregate, along favorite riding routes for weekend mornings or even popular night spots on Saturday nights, that doesn't compare to the phenomenon of "biker bars". Nowadays, you can find a "biker bar" in virtually every little strip mall, and lots more scattered along the highways. You can go past them just about any time day or night, and you will see mostly Harleys sitting outside. There is one such bar located a mile to the south of me, and another located a mile or two to the north. There can be little doubt that a significant portion of the Harley traffic that I hear going by, is people going from one to the other, with a significant portion of those people having blood alcohol levels exceeding the legal limit.
You’ll get no argument with me on this one. Drinking and driving is dangerous. Drinking and riding is beyond stupid. Do folks that ride Harleys drink more beer in bars than riders of other motorcycles? I suspect that this could be true, but again, please don’t lump me or my friends into that group simply because my bike has two cylinders.

The question of riding skills is not nearly as cut and dry. Certainly there are a lot of younger sport bike riders that don't have adequate riding experience or skills. But there is nothing honest about the statement: "Most have zero riding skills". Moreover, I don't see evidence for any significant difference in skill level among younger/newer sport bike riders and younger/newer Harley riders. I see a lot of younger sport bike riders, riding like idiots, and I see a lot of Harley riders, riding like idiots. Inexperienced riders ought not be riding bikes with as much power as many of them have, but inexperienced riders are also not well served by bikes that handle as poorly as Harleys and similar bikes are known to handle. But, there is one aspect of this where I do see a difference, which is with the adherence to superstitious ideas about riding techniques. For example, every once in a while I overhear a conversation where one rider is relating to another about the time that he "had to lay it down". Superstitious nonsense of this sort is a part of that culture, which cultivates a host of nonsensical beliefs and related practices, to include the belief that those ridiculous-looking chaps are going to offer any significant measure of protection in a crash, and the ridiculous notion that is better to wear a head scarf than a helmet, because helmets obstruct your vision, or whatever. Wear a scarf instead of a helmet, wear chaps instead of functional riding pants, ride a bike that handles like crap, make as much noise as you can so as to annoy as many people as possible while riding back and forth between your two favorite biker bars while pretending that beer doesn't diminish your riding skills.
Agreed. I misspoke when I used the word “Most”. Inasmuch as you don’t have the data to back up your claim of Harley riders buying into a culture, I have no data to back up my statement. I know there are many sport bike riders who participate in track days to hone their skills, attend MSF classes, and actively work on being a better, and safer rider. These are the riders I admire, regardless of what they are riding.

But…

I also see many sport bike riders wearing their $400 multi colored helmet. The rest of their riding gear consists of a tee shirt, shorts and tennis shoes...

These are usually the same clowns who blast by me either in my lane, or pass me on a double yellow line at triple digit speeds. The funny thing is I often end up behind them once the road gets twisty, as they can’t figure out how apex a turn correctly.

As far as your statement, “bikes that handle as poorly as Harleys and similar bikes are known to handle.”

I have to wonder why you feel this way? Have you actually ridden a late model Harley for any distance? Or is this just another prejudicial emotion? And yes, I realize that a Harley is not going to handle like a Hayabusa. They are totally different tools meant for different jobs. But, I will be willing to bet that a Harley will handle equally as well as any Japanese or European bike in the same class. (Gold wing, Venture, etc.)

If they were such poor handling bikes, I seriously doubt that so many police agencies would be using them with success.

I think we can also agree that the “Loud Pipes Save Lives” mantra is crap as well. I have no use for folks that insist on replacing a perfectly functioning muffler with a hollow tube. As I’m sure you know, a modern computer controlled fuel injected engine actually requires some backpressure to run at it’s best. Some people are just attention whores, I suppose, and I won’t ride with them either.

Now, I know I’m probably fighting a losing battle here. This is, after all, a sport bike forum, and it’s unlikely that I’ll change anyone’s opinion. But if you see me on the road, I’ll wave, regardless of what you are riding. If you’re stopped on the side of the road, I’ll stop, and see if you are okay. I don’t assume that all sport bike riders are squids, so please don’t assume that all Harley riders are knuckle dragging, drunken, unskilled, poseurs.

Remember, I’m the guy who is selling one of my Harley’s to buy a Kawasaki…

Ride Safe
Dan
 

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Okay, let's be honest here.

The vast majority of people who choose Harley do so because of the strong tie that the Harley brand has to that culture. Few people who have no inclination to belong to that culture, choose to buy a Harley.

As for the riding garb, I never thought of the typical sport bike rider as dressing up as a power ranger, and that strikes me as a surreptitious way to ridicule helmets and other protective riding gear. The gear that most sport bike riders wear, tends to be highly functional, offering a meaningful measure of protection in the event of a crash. That is in stark contrast to the head scarves and chaps that most of the Harley people wear.

I have nothing against anyone hanging out in bars as long as they are sober when they get back on the bike. But, I will note that while there are a few places where sport bike riders are known to congregate, along favorite riding routes for weekend mornings or even popular night spots on Saturday nights, that doesn't compare to the phenomenon of "biker bars". Nowadays, you can find a "biker bar" in virtually every little strip mall, and lots more scattered along the highways. You can go past them just about any time day or night, and you will see mostly Harleys sitting outside. There is one such bar located a mile to the south of me, and another located a mile or two to the north. There can be little doubt that a significant portion of the Harley traffic that I hear going by, is people going from one to the other, with a significant portion of those people having blood alcohol levels exceeding the legal limit.

The question of riding skills is not nearly as cut and dry. Certainly there are a lot of younger sport bike riders that don't have adequate riding experience or skills. But there is nothing honest about the statement: "Most have zero riding skills". Moreover, I don't see evidence for any significant difference in skill level among younger/newer sport bike riders and younger/newer Harley riders. I see a lot of younger sport bike riders, riding like idiots, and I see a lot of Harley riders, riding like idiots. Inexperienced riders ought not be riding bikes with as much power as many of them have, but inexperienced riders are also not well served by bikes that handle as poorly as Harleys and similar bikes are known to handle. But, there is one aspect of this where I do see a difference, which is with the adherence to superstitious ideas about riding techniques. For example, every once in a while I overhear a conversation where one rider is relating to another about the time that he "had to lay it down". Superstitious nonsense of this sort is a part of that culture, which cultivates a host of nonsensical beliefs and related practices, to include the belief that those ridiculous-looking chaps are going to offer any significant measure of protection in a crash, and the ridiculous notion that is better to wear a head scarf than a helmet, because helmets obstruct your vision, or whatever. Wear a scarf instead of a helmet, wear chaps instead of functional riding pants, ride a bike that handles like crap, make as much noise as you can so as to annoy as many people as possible while riding back and forth between your two favorite biker bars while pretending that beer doesn't diminish your riding skills.

Now, don't be offended. After all, you did say, "let's be honest here".
???

Look at my signature. Enigma that kind of messes up several of your theories my brother. =)
 

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boys boys boys....can't we all just get along????
I would much rather see some news about the bike than read all this stuff. I have noticed a pattern here, when there has been no news for awhile, everybody gets a bit edgy. We could just blame this all on Kawasaki for not letting us in on anything. All I really know is the dealer has my money and no bike or for that matter even a date.....oops, now I'm a bit edgy...sorry
 

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I would just like to respond to the statement that Harleys can't handle that bad because so many police forces use them.

Firsty the only police that use them are in North America where the push to buy domestic is strong. In Europe the police use primarily BMWs. Secondly because this is Harley's home market they bid cheap on contracts so that they can get the exposure. The decision to equip police with Harleys is based on politics and economics, not performance.

Also, I am starting to get edgy to the point where I am seriously looking at a Triumph Sprint ST. If the delivery of the C14 has been pushed out to September, as has been rumoured, then there is no point in me waiting because my riding season is damn near over then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If the delivery of the C14 has been pushed out to September, as has been rumoured, then there is no point in me waiting because my riding season is damn near over then.
Then we will immediatelly wait for end-season-off-prices...

:mfclap :mfclap :mfclap :mfclap :mfclap :mfclap
 

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Agreed Jonathan, we are looking at the Yamaha's this weekend for that very reason. The riding season in Minnesota is far to short the way it is. So...would being in favor of gobal warming make me a bad person???
 

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Well its sure a good thing that the C14 is a 2008 model... otherwise we might just have something to bitch about; wouldn't we??? :headscratch
 
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