It's not over! - ZX Forums
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post #1 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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It's not over!

I started working on my 779 again and am in the process of the bottom end refresh per CCMs suggestion after my cam guide disintegrated.


Plan:

I ordered new guides today and I'll be ordering a replacement head gasket.

The top end will go back together once those parts arrive, then I'll flip the motor and split the cases from the bottom. I'll inspect/change the rod and crank bearings.


Chris, I've been a total slacker and those kit short manifolds will make there way back to you soon. I will be in touch with a tracking number once they leave.

98 ZX7R 140HP
Wiseco 779cc Pistons
Airtech SBK Airbox
Webcam Race Grind
Ceramic Cam & Trans Bearings
Slipper Clutch
14k Crank Balance
Kibblewhite Kit
TCIP4
Dyna Coils
Super Conductor wires
Sharkskinz
Koso Tach & Temp Sensor
Penske Rear Suspension
Racetech Fork Kit
MP QT Throttle & Cables
Keihin FCR41
SES Fairing Stay
EK3D 520 Chain Conv.
Vortex Clip-Ons & Renthal
Lithium Battery
Polished Exh Ports
Motul 300v

02 ZX7R
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Muzzy Exh
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post #2 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 10:49 AM
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Nice to see new life in this nice bike!

I was afraid it would have to stay for a longer time because of your new toy :-)

Fear destroys Fun !

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post #3 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 12:30 PM
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He can leave the forced induction stuff to me and @2fat2fly. This setup will be coming off this ZX12R engine and get put on my Gadson ZX7R clone.

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post #4 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 01:24 PM
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It is going slowly. Too many builds underway, and this one is the lowest on the totem pole.

https://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-7r...ld-thread.html
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post #5 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed Kable View Post
Ok ok, sorry I asked :-) Seriously though, what's the 'lag like with that huuuuuge turbo, must take a while to spool up - sorry Turbo, got side tracked.....forgive my ignorance but what's the 779 all about? I am intrigued, particularly if it drags you away from your H(yperspace)2.
57X I'm not familiar with the Gadson - any pics?
Gadson


Nitrous to get it spooling and let the turbo take it from there. Automatic transmission in the bike, so no worries of having to re-spool the turbo.

Sorry Turbo, back to the regularly scheduled program .......

Last edited by 57x; 03-07-2016 at 02:05 PM.
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post #6 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 02:22 PM
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Really looking forward to seeing this bike finished. It all got so close then the H2 came along
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post #7 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-22-2016, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57x View Post
Gadson


Nitrous to get it spooling and let the turbo take it from there. Automatic transmission in the bike, so no worries of having to re-spool the turbo.

Sorry Turbo, back to the regularly scheduled program .......
I want that tail

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehendrix View Post

-i do not wave to scooters. if anything, i aim to kick them over.
"I did the research for him and THEN he buys stuff and cancels and THEN he does the research backass halfwards." - 2fat2fly
This is my ZX-7R. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My ZX-7R is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My ZX-7R, without me, is useless. Without my ZX-7R, I am useless.
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post #8 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-22-2016, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zed Kable View Post
Turbo - how's the 779 coming along?
Now that we have stopped hijacking your thread........sorry, err....;-)
Yeah. Come on guys, no more phucking aro- hey 57, how's that turbo goin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehendrix View Post

-i do not wave to scooters. if anything, i aim to kick them over.
"I did the research for him and THEN he buys stuff and cancels and THEN he does the research backass halfwards." - 2fat2fly
This is my ZX-7R. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My ZX-7R is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My ZX-7R, without me, is useless. Without my ZX-7R, I am useless.
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post #9 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-22-2016, 05:18 PM
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Last on the list. I am trying to get my two Superbikes ready for the Quail Superbike Show here in Carmel in a few months. Not looking good, but trying. I also want to get my track day "Superbike-ish" build done so I can get in a few track days this year. The nitrous/turbo build will probably be a 2017 build.
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post #10 of 399 (permalink) Old 03-22-2016, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57x View Post
Last on the list. I am trying to get my two Superbikes ready for the Quail Superbike Show here in Carmel in a few months. Not looking good, but trying. I also want to get my track day "Superbike-ish" build done so I can get in a few track days this year. The nitrous/turbo build will probably be a 2017 build.
We want pictures of your bikes
Darn, 2017? That's not too far away... Can't wait!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitehendrix View Post

-i do not wave to scooters. if anything, i aim to kick them over.
"I did the research for him and THEN he buys stuff and cancels and THEN he does the research backass halfwards." - 2fat2fly
This is my ZX-7R. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My ZX-7R is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My ZX-7R, without me, is useless. Without my ZX-7R, I am useless.
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post #11 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 05:17 AM Thread Starter
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The cases will be split from the bottom anytime between now and Thursday depending on how tired I am after work.


98 ZX7R 140HP
Wiseco 779cc Pistons
Airtech SBK Airbox
Webcam Race Grind
Ceramic Cam & Trans Bearings
Slipper Clutch
14k Crank Balance
Kibblewhite Kit
TCIP4
Dyna Coils
Super Conductor wires
Sharkskinz
Koso Tach & Temp Sensor
Penske Rear Suspension
Racetech Fork Kit
MP QT Throttle & Cables
Keihin FCR41
SES Fairing Stay
EK3D 520 Chain Conv.
Vortex Clip-Ons & Renthal
Lithium Battery
Polished Exh Ports
Motul 300v

02 ZX7R
Dynojet
Muzzy Exh
BMC Race Filter
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post #12 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 03:38 PM
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Wth is that... Lol, you still have that

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post #13 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccmhunt View Post
Wth is that... Lol, you still have that
lol. Yup. I love the H2 but there's nothing like Flat Slides.


So, I was hoping this wouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is. The damage is not readily apparent after splitting the cases.

There are some copper looking shavings in the bellypan and all of the bearings look to be intact.





Based on the copper color I suspect that maybe a Piston Ring failed and the gaps were all within spec. So if that's the case I will be extremely disappointed. The bearings will all be changed as a precautionary measure. Perhaps that will explain why the bike lost nearly 20hp on the dyno when the problem started.

Since I have the bottom half off it might be easier to remove the pistons right from the bottom of the engine along with the crank and rods.
tangosevern likes this.

98 ZX7R 140HP
Wiseco 779cc Pistons
Airtech SBK Airbox
Webcam Race Grind
Ceramic Cam & Trans Bearings
Slipper Clutch
14k Crank Balance
Kibblewhite Kit
TCIP4
Dyna Coils
Super Conductor wires
Sharkskinz
Koso Tach & Temp Sensor
Penske Rear Suspension
Racetech Fork Kit
MP QT Throttle & Cables
Keihin FCR41
SES Fairing Stay
EK3D 520 Chain Conv.
Vortex Clip-Ons & Renthal
Lithium Battery
Polished Exh Ports
Motul 300v

02 ZX7R
Dynojet
Muzzy Exh
BMC Race Filter
RaceTech Fork Kit

Last edited by Turbo329; 05-16-2016 at 07:43 PM.
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post #14 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 02:02 PM
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I would be interested to see if you manage to take the pistons bottom out. I am due to check my big end soon after my engine started to knock and ideally was hoping not to knacker my head gasket as it will take about a month for me to get hold of another Wiseco one here in the UK.

I always thought copper colour in the oil was a sign of big end bearing failure, but judging from you picture you have already had this apart enough to check that. Perhaps the shells on your conrods? I am sure you would have heard it knocking though if they had worn that bad.
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post #15 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 07:26 PM
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The Pistons won't come out the bottom.


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post #16 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritchie-t View Post
I always thought copper colour in the oil was a sign of big end bearing failure, but judging from you picture you have already had this apart enough to check that. Perhaps the shells on your conrods? I am sure you would have heard it knocking though if they had worn that bad.
Ritchie, you nailed it.

I threw on the bottom case half and then popped the cylinder head and cylinders off. When I rocked the pistons back and forth, piston #3 was very tight to move. I think I caught it in the early stages of Big End bearing failure for rod #3.

So I'm going to pretty much take my time with it and give it the complete overhaul and blow out all the passages with compressed air.

All because of a stupid cam chain guide that disintegrated. I'm going back to the stock CCT next time around. I don't want to have to worry about adjusting it once I set it.

98 ZX7R 140HP
Wiseco 779cc Pistons
Airtech SBK Airbox
Webcam Race Grind
Ceramic Cam & Trans Bearings
Slipper Clutch
14k Crank Balance
Kibblewhite Kit
TCIP4
Dyna Coils
Super Conductor wires
Sharkskinz
Koso Tach & Temp Sensor
Penske Rear Suspension
Racetech Fork Kit
MP QT Throttle & Cables
Keihin FCR41
SES Fairing Stay
EK3D 520 Chain Conv.
Vortex Clip-Ons & Renthal
Lithium Battery
Polished Exh Ports
Motul 300v

02 ZX7R
Dynojet
Muzzy Exh
BMC Race Filter
RaceTech Fork Kit
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post #17 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo329 View Post
Ritchie, you nailed it.

I threw on the bottom case half and then popped the cylinder head and cylinders off. When I rocked the pistons back and forth, piston #3 was very tight to move. I think I caught it in the early stages of Big End bearing failure for rod #3.

So I'm going to pretty much take my time with it and give it the complete overhaul and blow out all the passages with compressed air.

All because of a stupid cam chain guide that disintegrated. I'm going back to the stock CCT next time around. I don't want to have to worry about adjusting it once I set it.
Glad you may have found an issue before it got bad there.

I may have been wrong though about the copper bits in the oil. I know some shells are overplated copper. When a big end goes with these a tell tail sign is copper in the oil because the shells wear through the overplating down to the copper. Normally though this is a copper shimmer in the oil from what I have been led to believe.

I took the sump of mine the today to investigate a knocking/rattle (turned out to be a knackered water pump shaft) and found exactly the same kind of copper looking debris as your picture shows. I thought it might be a shell, but I was not sure if the Kawasaki shells were overplated copper, so I took an old one I had and cut it in half with a hack saw. There was no copper, so the copper debris must be from something else.

Now one thing me and you both have in common is we both have the same Wiseco piston kit. We know there is a copperish coloured compression ring as part of the kit. Perhaps this is just how they bed in when running the engine in? Quite alarming, but we both have had exactly the same debris from what I can tell. What did your rings and cylinders look like when you took it apart?

Here is a pic of what came out the bottom of mine for reference:

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post #18 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 03:49 PM
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That's not rings bedding in

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post #19 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 05:56 PM
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Any idea where it might be from? Interested to hear what turbo says with regards to the condition of the piston rings and cylinder walls. I haven't taken mine out yet.

I just can't help but wonder why we have the same piston kit and the same looking bits in the sump.
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post #20 of 399 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritchie-t View Post
Any idea where it might be from? Interested to hear what turbo says with regards to the condition of the piston rings and cylinder walls. I haven't taken mine out yet.

I just can't help but wonder why we have the same piston kit and the same looking bits in the sump.
My cylinders and rings were in great shape. I was pleasantly surprised.

The rod was tight to move back and forth so that's gotta be it. If it isn't, I'm going to replace the bearings as a precaution.

I have that same debris but a lot more of it.

98 ZX7R 140HP
Wiseco 779cc Pistons
Airtech SBK Airbox
Webcam Race Grind
Ceramic Cam & Trans Bearings
Slipper Clutch
14k Crank Balance
Kibblewhite Kit
TCIP4
Dyna Coils
Super Conductor wires
Sharkskinz
Koso Tach & Temp Sensor
Penske Rear Suspension
Racetech Fork Kit
MP QT Throttle & Cables
Keihin FCR41
SES Fairing Stay
EK3D 520 Chain Conv.
Vortex Clip-Ons & Renthal
Lithium Battery
Polished Exh Ports
Motul 300v

02 ZX7R
Dynojet
Muzzy Exh
BMC Race Filter
RaceTech Fork Kit
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