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It's not over!

39K views 398 replies 29 participants last post by  mte78 
#1 ·
I started working on my 779 again and am in the process of the bottom end refresh per CCMs suggestion after my cam guide disintegrated.


Plan:

I ordered new guides today and I'll be ordering a replacement head gasket.

The top end will go back together once those parts arrive, then I'll flip the motor and split the cases from the bottom. I'll inspect/change the rod and crank bearings.


Chris, I've been a total slacker and those kit short manifolds will make there way back to you soon. I will be in touch with a tracking number once they leave.
 
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#8 ·
Yeah. Come on guys, no more phucking aro- hey 57, how's that turbo goin? :evil
 
#9 ·
Last on the list. I am trying to get my two Superbikes ready for the Quail Superbike Show here in Carmel in a few months. Not looking good, but trying. I also want to get my track day "Superbike-ish" build done so I can get in a few track days this year. The nitrous/turbo build will probably be a 2017 build.
 
#10 ·
We want pictures of your bikes :evilgrin:
Darn, 2017? That's not too far away... Can't wait! :evil
 
#11 ·
The cases will be split from the bottom anytime between now and Thursday depending on how tired I am after work.

 
#13 · (Edited)
lol. Yup. I love the H2 but there's nothing like Flat Slides.


So, I was hoping this wouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is. The damage is not readily apparent after splitting the cases.

There are some copper looking shavings in the bellypan and all of the bearings look to be intact.





Based on the copper color I suspect that maybe a Piston Ring failed and the gaps were all within spec. So if that's the case I will be extremely disappointed. The bearings will all be changed as a precautionary measure. Perhaps that will explain why the bike lost nearly 20hp on the dyno when the problem started.

Since I have the bottom half off it might be easier to remove the pistons right from the bottom of the engine along with the crank and rods.
 
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#14 ·
I would be interested to see if you manage to take the pistons bottom out. I am due to check my big end soon after my engine started to knock and ideally was hoping not to knacker my head gasket as it will take about a month for me to get hold of another Wiseco one here in the UK.

I always thought copper colour in the oil was a sign of big end bearing failure, but judging from you picture you have already had this apart enough to check that. Perhaps the shells on your conrods? I am sure you would have heard it knocking though if they had worn that bad.
 
#16 ·
I always thought copper colour in the oil was a sign of big end bearing failure, but judging from you picture you have already had this apart enough to check that. Perhaps the shells on your conrods? I am sure you would have heard it knocking though if they had worn that bad.
Ritchie, you nailed it.

I threw on the bottom case half and then popped the cylinder head and cylinders off. When I rocked the pistons back and forth, piston #3 was very tight to move. I think I caught it in the early stages of Big End bearing failure for rod #3.

So I'm going to pretty much take my time with it and give it the complete overhaul and blow out all the passages with compressed air.

All because of a stupid cam chain guide that disintegrated. I'm going back to the stock CCT next time around. I don't want to have to worry about adjusting it once I set it.
 
#15 ·
#20 ·
My cylinders and rings were in great shape. I was pleasantly surprised.

The rod was tight to move back and forth so that's gotta be it. If it isn't, I'm going to replace the bearings as a precaution.

I have that same debris but a lot more of it.
 
#23 ·
Will do sir!


Would you happen to know what tool or bit I need to get those star shaped bolts out of the Conn rods?
 
#25 ·
After CCM saying that those shavings are not from the rings. I have to say I agree, I cannot see that much material coming off the rings at a time and not damaging the ring/bores in the process. This confirmed by the fact that you saying that that area looked fine led me to think where else there could be copper in the engine? Really the only place could be the shells. After cutting through an old one as I mentioned before, I did not see any copper in its make up. I could not get my head around it. Being the double checking type of guy that I am, I decided to scrape away at the inside surface. Low an behold there is copper in there. It is such a super thin layer just below the silver coloured coating. When I cut straight through the first time, it was so thin I missed it looking at a cross section. Probably the first bit you are likely to wear too when they start to fail.

So, likely this could be it as we thought :frown2:

I will be tearing mine down too, so will compare notes as it seems we both have the same debris and I would expect our findings to be the same.

 
#26 ·
Not sure if you saw my post in my other build thread Turbo, but I have exactly the same but on a different rod. I took the cylinders off and conrod number 1 is really really tight to move back and forth. I have not had chance to split the cases yet, but I would certainly bet the copper shavings are indeed off the shells on that conrod.

Can I ask with regards to your pistons. Are you planning on re-using the piston pin circlips on reassembly or is that big no no? I am not sure you can get the Wiseco ones outside of the piston kit.
 
#28 · (Edited)
I must admit I have always been told the same and have not done it before. I thought it would be worth asking on the off chance it was ok to reuse them, just because I cannot find them sold separately over here in the UK.

EDIT…

Found the same size is used in a lot of motocross bikes. Managed to get some genuine ones from an MX shop
 
#29 ·
Turbo – Some food for thought regarding your cam chain tensioner. Last weekend at my race meeting my bike just kept losing power and I could not work out why. Then in the last practice session it started making a rattling noise from the cam chain side of the engine. I took the tensioner out and the spring that holds the catch popped out (not the tension spring) and the catch had jammed. It would not move forwards and was completely locked in one place. We managed to free the catch and get the spring back in place, but it did it again after the next session. In the end I had to cut down a bolt, slide it down the tensioner and then shim it with smaller washers one by one until I got the tension right.

Until that point I was all in favour of auto tensioners, but now I must say I am leaning the other way and will probably go manual for race use where they are under more stress. Not sure if I was just unlucky, but when asking around the paddock if other 7R riders had a spare tensioner 2 of them said that they have had ones fail on them in the past.

I fully understand your reasons for wanting to go with the auto tensioner and am not trying to convince you otherwise, but feel that it would be worth letting you know my experience.
 
#32 ·
Chris,

At this point, I might want to look into that since my engine is completely apart again.

How much would an operation like that cost me altogether? I'm pretty much riding the H2 this season on the track so I can take my time with this motor now.
 
#33 ·
RR crank
Kit cylinder
Kit head
Gear drive cassette
Crank gear
Cam gears
Cct block off
Cassette locator pin
Gear drive bolts
Kit cdi (to take advantage of higher valve train accuracy)
Kit or aftermarket valve train (if you want to take advantage of higher possible rpm)
 
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