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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Power Commander

I have a 2016 ZX14R and i wanted to get a Brock's Full Exhaust but they told me they don't make a power commander for the 2016 bc it has a O2 sensor.Could i install the full exhaust with no power commander,just wanted to know everyone thoughts and advice.

Thanks,
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 03:43 PM
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Instead of adding a PC, just get your ECU reflashed to suit the pipe. Brock's can do it.

It may be a pig, but it's a pig with a rocket in it's ass!
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Ok thanks for the info,I appreciate it.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-19-2016, 08:01 PM
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I went with a Guhl Flash...........
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 02:06 PM
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When they reflash your ECU are they tuning it on the dyno for an optimal tune or simply loading a map etc? and also how much are they charging you.?
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jahrasti View Post
When they reflash your ECU are they tuning it on the dyno for an optimal tune or simply loading a map etc? and also how much are they charging you.?
This is pretty serious stuff. When you start messing around with an Ivan or Guhl ECM ECU flash your pretty much at the top of the food chain for this sort of thing. Guhl is in NJ. You tell him what you got and what you want and mail him your ECU, (like others will ask) it is not cheap, but it is not that expensive either. You can get some ECU flashes for somewhere around $75 and hope they don't 'brick' your ECU. Many, many opinions on this subject. I just cut to the chase and went Guhl.......
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by apogee View Post
This is pretty serious stuff. When you start messing around with an Ivan or Guhl ECM ECU flash your pretty much at the top of the food chain for this sort of thing. Guhl is in NJ. You tell him what you got and what you want and mail him your ECU, (like others will ask) it is not cheap, but it is not that expensive either. You can get some ECU flashes for somewhere around $75 and hope they don't 'brick' your ECU. Many, many opinions on this subject. I just cut to the chase and went Guhl.......
Damn thats a nice bike
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 09:55 PM
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Damn thats a nice bike
Thanks..I really like my bike too......
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-21-2016, 05:42 AM
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The reflashes are based on what they think works best. A dyno tune would be extra $ and your bike would have to be there to have it done.

It may be a pig, but it's a pig with a rocket in it's ass!
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 01:43 AM
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This is pretty serious stuff. When you start messing around with an Ivan or Guhl ECM ECU flash your pretty much at the top of the food chain for this sort of thing. Guhl is in NJ. You tell him what you got and what you want and mail him your ECU, (like others will ask) it is not cheap, but it is not that expensive either. You can get some ECU flashes for somewhere around $75 and hope they don't 'brick' your ECU. Many, many opinions on this subject. I just cut to the chase and went Guhl.......
I should have been clearer as I am a lazy typer at home.

I was just trying to get some feedback from people that have sent the ECU away and what they thought about it upon its return compared to beforehand. A seat of the pants test if you will.

I am very familiar with piggy back computers (PC,Bazzaz etc) on road and race bikes and even things like the kit ECU for the old 6rr.

Where I struggle (and its probably all in my head!!!) is the "average" map that is put in. I guess I am just so used to bikes being tuned on the dyno for optimum results. How do I know it isn't running lean etc.

I understand that the reputable guys will probably do a very good job, I need to do research on it so I can understand it more.

I watched a couple of youtube clips on reflashing and the bikes were still tuned on the dyno.

I am contemplating getting it done on my 10r road bike here in New Zealand, its $280 NZD. But then I wonder why don't I just pay extra and get it on the dyno. Hence why I am wanting a real world review.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 07:59 AM
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I have sent my first ECU for my 2014 Ninja 1000 (I think it is called Z1000 SX in NZ) to Ivan's Performance for a flash. I had just put a full Akrapovic header on the bike and removed the smog. I can say I was quite pleased. The is not much to be had on the Ninja 1000 with a header or tune. Ivan's shows three additional HP and two additional torque. The stock engine gives up at 10,500 rpm and with the flash it now pulls to 11,500. The biggest change is the ridability after the flash. Most tuners use the Woolrich software to flash the computer and it cannot remove the fuel cut upon deceleration. The bike is extremely smooth and I couldn't be happier. I confirmed the bike was not too lean by pulling the plugs after a few hundred miles and they do not show lean condition signs.

I recently bought a 2012 ZX10R that had an Archer tune for an Akra pipe, smog removed and a jumper plug for the smog sensor. The bike came to me no longer having the Akra pipe on it, but I already had one. The first thing I did was put the Akra pipe on the bike and take it out. I was not happy with either the power or ridability of the tune. I pulled the ECU and sent it to Ivan's for a re-flash. Ivan's requires a PC-V in addition to the flash as the flash itself just cannot get close enough, saying it would be too lean without the PC-V. He supplied the flash for my PC-V, which I also installed. Archer did not require a PC-V. I am again extremely happy with the tune. Tons more power than the Archer tune and much more ridable. I took the ZX10R to a friend that had a dyno and he tested it. He said he could "tweek" a few things but he was impressed with the tune overall. Not lean at all. FWIW, Archer now works for Woolrich and no longer offers tunes.

I hope this helps.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 09:56 AM
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Since the assholes at Guhl didn't bother to get back to me on the changes they say they claim, I sent my brick, er ECU, to Schnitz racing.
$75 and $10 shipping, I had my ecu back in less than a week and they do all the same things the other's do.
I added a PCV for peace of mind and can change the map at anytime without having to send my ecu back and forth to have it remapped.
no brainer for me but some people can't get it through their brain that they got ripped off by the others and continue to bash a set up that works better. I don't need to swing my dick everytime someone says ecu flash just because I spent $300 less for the same thing

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 185EZ View Post
Since the assholes at Guhl didn't bother to get back to me on the changes they say they claim, I sent my brick, er ECU, to Schnitz racing.
$75 and $10 shipping, I had my ecu back in less than a week and they do all the same things the other's do.
I added a PCV for peace of mind and can change the map at anytime without having to send my ecu back and forth to have it remapped.
no brainer for me but some people can't get it through their brain that they got ripped off by the others and continue to bash a set up that works better. I don't need to swing my dick everytime someone says ecu flash just because I spent $300 less for the same thing
I hear that and why pay for more than you need to.

Personally, would love to get the bike on a dyno and have it tuned that way. Can't say I want a wideband and all those electronics yet :-)
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 185EZ View Post
Since the assholes at Guhl didn't bother to get back to me on the changes they say they claim, I sent my brick, er ECU, to Schnitz racing.
$75 and $10 shipping, I had my ecu back in less than a week and they do all the same things the other's do.
I added a PCV for peace of mind and can change the map at anytime without having to send my ecu back and forth to have it remapped.
no brainer for me but some people can't get it through their brain that they got ripped off by the others and continue to bash a set up that works better. I don't need to swing my dick everytime someone says ecu flash just because I spent $300 less for the same thing
Same route I went. ECU is currently at Schnitz for flashing, can't wait to get it back. Then it's off to the dyno tuner in a few weeks anyway. I'd rather have a proper dyno tune than a flash map thrown on anyway.

And for clarification, Guhl is NOT in NJ.

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 07:15 PM
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Well, since I got side by side comparison of two different flashes, I can say they are not all the same. Huge difference in power and ridability between the Archer and Ivan's. Glad the Schnitz worked for you. I'm quite happy my Ivan's tunes. I've never tried Schnitz but may in the future. We all know I constantly change bikes.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 10:15 PM
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I took the ZX10R to a friend that had a dyno and he tested it. He said he could "tweek" a few things but he was impressed with the tune overall.
Be careful having anyone else adjust one of Ivan's tunes. From talking with Ivan, he doesn't just use the dyno to make his tune. I think he starts with the dyno to get in the ballpark, then takes his computer with him on his test bike on the road and refines his tune. It's adjusted to real-world riding, not just a dyno. This includes high speed where our ram air has an effect. If you have some guy with a dyno "tweek" it, you're going backwards and taking out the refinement that Ivan works hard to achieve... JMHO.

I'm in the process of installing my Akrapovic Race Titanium full exhaust (8lbs. 7oz. including the packing material and box) and then the ECU goes to Ivan. I'll install the PC5 with his map too. One of the benefits of the PC5 is the quick shift feature... I hate waiting, but my daughter is getting married in two weeks, so of course my life has to be on hold until that's all over. :)

Last edited by Aegisranger; 09-26-2016 at 10:25 PM.
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-27-2016, 07:24 AM
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I have the Brocks slip-on system but didn't do anything else to the bike like I did when I owned by CBR1000RR (PC, dynoed, etc) and the 14R runs like a wild beast in the African savanna. Stock, smooth, silky, sweet lean machine.

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-27-2016, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Aegisranger View Post
Be careful having anyone else adjust one of Ivan's tunes. From talking with Ivan, he doesn't just use the dyno to make his tune. I think he starts with the dyno to get in the ballpark, then takes his computer with him on his test bike on the road and refines his tune. It's adjusted to real-world riding, not just a dyno. This includes high speed where our ram air has an effect. If you have some guy with a dyno "tweek" it, you're going backwards and taking out the refinement that Ivan works hard to achieve... JMHO.

I'm in the process of installing my Akrapovic Race Titanium full exhaust (8lbs. 7oz. including the packing material and box) and then the ECU goes to Ivan. I'll install the PC5 with his map too. One of the benefits of the PC5 is the quick shift feature... I hate waiting, but my daughter is getting married in two weeks, so of course my life has to be on hold until that's all over. :)

I would not let him touch the tune. I just wanted to see where it was at. Agreed, Ivan's seems to do more than just dyno tune. It was the rideability comment I made. He probably does not eek out every bit of power, but makes everything transition smooth.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-27-2016, 08:06 PM
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I have Ivan's tune on zx10r and zx14r. Amazingly smooth even at low rpms on both.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-28-2016, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 57x View Post
I have sent my first ECU for my 2014 Ninja 1000 (I think it is called Z1000 SX in NZ) to Ivan's Performance for a flash. I had just put a full Akrapovic header on the bike and removed the smog. I can say I was quite pleased. The is not much to be had on the Ninja 1000 with a header or tune. Ivan's shows three additional HP and two additional torque. The stock engine gives up at 10,500 rpm and with the flash it now pulls to 11,500. The biggest change is the ridability after the flash. Most tuners use the Woolrich software to flash the computer and it cannot remove the fuel cut upon deceleration. The bike is extremely smooth and I couldn't be happier. I confirmed the bike was not too lean by pulling the plugs after a few hundred miles and they do not show lean condition signs.

I recently bought a 2012 ZX10R that had an Archer tune for an Akra pipe, smog removed and a jumper plug for the smog sensor. The bike came to me no longer having the Akra pipe on it, but I already had one. The first thing I did was put the Akra pipe on the bike and take it out. I was not happy with either the power or ridability of the tune. I pulled the ECU and sent it to Ivan's for a re-flash. Ivan's requires a PC-V in addition to the flash as the flash itself just cannot get close enough, saying it would be too lean without the PC-V. He supplied the flash for my PC-V, which I also installed. Archer did not require a PC-V. I am again extremely happy with the tune. Tons more power than the Archer tune and much more ridable. I took the ZX10R to a friend that had a dyno and he tested it. He said he could "tweek" a few things but he was impressed with the tune overall. Not lean at all. FWIW, Archer now works for Woolrich and no longer offers tunes.

I hope this helps.
Great post thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to ask about.

I think I will send my 10 ecu up to the local guy here to reflash and see what I think.

This is while I contemplate my next hair brained scheme for my 7
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