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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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No spark - at all

Hello all.

Just repaired a bike which I bought that had the crankshaft fault. Got a new crankshaft and a new gearbox fitted in now. But I got a more serious problem now.
There is absolutely no spark from any of the 4 spark caps. I get 12 volt at the coils - but I cant get it to spark. Ive checked the sidestand switch with is working - the neutral light is on (and goes out when I take the cable off the engine) so i guess its working as well. The pickup coil is sending out resistance when cranking - so working as well. I can get the engine to crank (starter motor ok) which it does good and freely.
Ive spent 2 hole days sorting this problem out - but I cant figure it out. I suppose its the CDI (Black box) that is causing all this issues - but have I really dont have a clue. Does anyone have any good ideas what could be wrong? And where I should start fault testing?
Maybe someone know a good idea to check the sparkcoils?

Hope you guys can help because im nearly out of hair on my head...
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 11:44 AM
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As mentioned many, many times before, Japanese black boxes rarely fail, and are the LAST item to check, after ALL other possible points of failure have been exhausted. These arent old British or Italian bikes you know.

Did you check gap at the pulse generator? This is an old term for the spark unit, or timing rotor, a device that creates a timed spark. Air gap should be .5 to .9mm between pick up coil and rotor.

Defective engine stop switch will also kill spark to the plugs. Bypass that in your diagnostics.

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Last edited by Blainethemono; 09-25-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Hi m8.

I´ll check the gap on the pickup coil tomorrow - the only weird thing is that I get resistance on the coil when cranking the engine - which I believe is an indication for the pick up coil to be working (correct me if im wrong).

Otherwise, do you know a good idea to bypass the engine kill switch (Ive had this in mind - but thought it was okay since I couldn´t crank the engine while the switch was off?

Btw its a ZZR 1100 C2
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 01:18 PM
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Reading above and I think that the switch might me good if you can't crank the engine when it's in the off position.

Did you check that the wires are tight to the caps and the wires haven't come off (unlikely it would happen to all 4, but ya never know).

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Hi, im pretty sure that the wires are all in the caps. And ive tried with 4 different sparkplug which i know is working.
Damn, this is getting more and more weird. In my oppinion ive tried everything - but isnt there a way to bypass ecu/cdi box and see if the coil can generated a spark. Then I can rule out the cause for being faulty ignition/ht coils, leaving back the air gab in pickup coil, junction box and ecu.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 02:05 PM
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When the kill switch is engaged the engine WILL crank, but not start... thats what my bike does. If yours does disengage the starter mech, I think that is your trouble point, course Euro bikes might be wired differently.

The red & yellow wires coming into the kill switch plug just need to be jumped to bypass the kill switch. Obviously, jump them on the engine side, NOT the switch side.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 03:30 PM
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Are you sure the connector from the pickup rotor is plugged in ? In 25 years I've had 3 bad igniters...all due to my negligence so that doesnt sound likely.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 04:52 PM
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Do you have a schematic for your bike? I have a D model electrical section that has a UK C model schematic. PM if you need it and I'll email it to you-
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-26-2011, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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update

Hello again.

Been fidling with the bike all day. Ive took the HT coils of to make sure they could produce a spark. I but 12v on one side and grounded the other - but the spark was very very weak. So weak in fact I had to take a very close look to see it - could not see the color of it either. Ive checked with a 12v 6 amp battery. But afterall it sparks - maybe ruling out the fact being faulty HT coils. But im unsure how the spark should be - i know that the spark from a car is blue and very easy to detects - but this one was very weak.

Ive decided to but the coils back on and try to fire up the bike - It seems like the bike is almost starting at some points - but it never fires up. You can of course easily hear the different between a rotation motor and a motor almost firing up. It takes enough gasoline inside carbs and the fuel sprays out of the little hole in the carbs as well. Kill switch is working order as well.

Ive also checked the pickup coil - weirdly the gab was 0.15mm but I can´t find a way to adjust it. Everytime I screw the bolt in it gets back to 0.15mm. Can this have something to do with the bike not firing up?

Hope you guys can help with this update - maybe im forgetting something.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-26-2011, 10:50 AM
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It should be right in front of you. 2 bolts hold each pickup coil in place. Rotare crank until timing rotor projection is lined up with pickup coil. Loosen bolt, use feeler gauge to get correct air gap, tighten bolts



Then do the same thing to the other side.


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Last edited by Blainethemono; 09-26-2011 at 11:01 AM.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-26-2011, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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It no problem finding the pickup coil - only problem is that it can only be fitted in one manner. My ZX11 only got one coil.

But ive get a resistance on the coil when im cranking the engine - so I guess it isnt faulty. How much role does the air gap in the pickup coil play?

Still a bit confused - cause bike sounds like it going to start - but it doesnt. After cranking for about 15 times I decided to take a plug out - but I couldnt smell any gasoline on the plugs?
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-26-2011, 03:26 PM
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Well thats a start. Disconnect the fuel line at the pump and see if its spewing gas....

Float bowls have any gas in them?

You are correct, my bad. The ZX11 has one pickup and the gap is supposed to be .7mm. The small circle on the rotor must line up with the large circle on the pickup coil.

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Last edited by Blainethemono; 09-26-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2011, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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After tonight I fault tested the engine once more and bought some starter booster. When it was getting a bit dark otherside I test the spark from the plugs when I was turning the starter motor. Weirdly I could easily see that it sparked - and in fact the spark was good on all four sparks. So I plugged them in again - but I just cant get it to startup - not even with the high octance booster (Starter spray) directly into the carbs. The Motor coughs a bit but goes completly dead afterwards.
Im so sad that I cannot get the bike to fire up and im almost out of ideas.
Ive checked the fuelpump today as well and can fell that its running

Any help or suggestion on what to do now is very appreciated.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2011, 12:42 PM
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Have you checked how much resistance you have on the pickup coil? I think its supposed to be between 380 to 570 ohms of resistance. I think that's what it is for my '94 ZX11. Mine cheched okay with 450 ohms res. Local dealer checked it for free.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2011, 12:54 PM
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As has already been said, your CDI/ignitor box should be one of the last things you check. However if yours is a sealed unit like mine, you could pull it off and check for cracks or swelling or discoloration which may indicate its failing or has failed. My manual says it can only be tested by a dealer but I have read somewheres you can test them yourself. Good luck.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2011, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Since im getting spark when cranking im assuming that the CDI/blackbox is functioning. Does the alternator contain anything that can make the bike not firing up?
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyzo View Post
Since im getting spark when cranking im assuming that the CDI/blackbox is functioning. Does the alternator contain anything that can make the bike not firing up?
No. Spark, fuel and air. That is all you need. The bike can run on battery for awhile.

You mentioned that your plugs are dry... Now, if your pilot jets are plugged, hard starting may result. Try again, but this time open the throttle all the way when trying to start it. This will clean out the carbs, if flooded, and also bypass the low speed circuit. We are assuming, that since the bike is cold, you also have the choke engaged?

If the bike starts, feather the throttle and try to keep her above 3 grand. If this results, odds are that the pilots are plugged and need to be removed for cleaning.

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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-28-2011, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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finally

Finally got my bike fired up - took the top of the motor and saw that the camshaft was out of sync. In fact so bad i would believe i could put the carbs where the exhaust is and make it run. Stupid mechanic who made rebuilding my top part of the engine since ive hadnt got the time - Nothing will be good unless you do it yourself.
Well, finally my bike is good - but Ive got an issue with the idle speed. It idles around 2.8k - 3k and that is way to high - and warming motor way up. Ive tried turning the idle adjustment screw but I cant get it under 2.8k. It should be said im test without the airfilter on and no choke- could that be the trouble that its a weak mixture that the bike idles so high?

Anything else I can check for that is causing the high idle speed?

Hope you guys can help me once again..
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyzo View Post
Finally got my bike fired up - took the top of the motor and saw that the camshaft was out of sync. In fact so bad i would believe i could put the carbs where the exhaust is and make it run. Stupid mechanic who made rebuilding my top part of the engine since ive hadnt got the time - Nothing will be good unless you do it yourself.
Well, finally my bike is good - but Ive got an issue with the idle speed. It idles around 2.8k - 3k and that is way to high - and warming motor way up. Ive tried turning the idle adjustment screw but I cant get it under 2.8k. It should be said im test without the airfilter on and no choke- could that be the trouble that its a weak mixture that the bike idles so high?

Anything else I can check for that is causing the high idle speed?

Hope you guys can help me once again..
Weak mixture, it wouldn't idle at all. Check that the throttle is adjusted properly, it might have no freeplay whatsoever and so it can't close. Also look for air leaks - the carbs might not be seated in the boots, maybe one of the vacuum port plugs is missing, etc.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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None of the vacuum plugs are missing and the plastic hoses are attached as well - in my oppinion everything is fitted correctly. But once you turn the throttle grip it jumps to 5k rpm - but wont settle under the 3k rpm - In fact it jumping somewhere between 2300 - 3200 rpm - and that is without the choke.
Dont know if it is because that ive gotten no airfilter attached - but when I believe when you are doing carb syncronizing you do not have the airfilter fitted.

Its getting hot quite fast - but I dont know if everyone of the ZZR1100 does that.Ive checked the waterflow - and its okay.
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