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post #1 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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ZZR1100 Carb Issues

Hi All,

I recently picked up an 11 that had been sitting for 10 years.

When I try to start her she tries but ends up flooding with a poo of fuel under the bike.

To me the carbs are clogged as there is rust in the tank.

Ive stripped the carbs to fins red rust dust all over and the mains are black.

I need to get these cleaned.

I noticed some passage ways blocked and need some advice as to what they are and how to unclog.

I have access to 30% hydrochloric and 40% phosphoric acids as well as carb cleaner, vinegar and lemon juice.

I was going to boild the bamk in lemon juice but will the plastics take it ?

also what are these passageways ? one of them is blocked - the one with the plastic tube in the pic

TIA

Rake
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post #2 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Just found a blocked pilot as well, soaking in thinners at present.
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post #3 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 04:39 PM
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This carburetor jet cleaning tool works great:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carburetor-...1:pf:0&vxp=mtr

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1984 Kawasaki GPz-1100
1978 Kawasaki KZ-1000 LTD
1977 Kawasaki KZ-1000
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1972 Kawasaki 750 H2 triple

Last edited by KoflaOlivieri; 11-03-2018 at 04:42 PM.
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post #4 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 05:53 PM
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Be careful of those cleaning tools- they look suspiciously like oxy-acetylene torch tip cleaners. If so, they could easily enlarge the jet passages. I may be wrong, they could be soft and specifically made for carb jets, but from the looks of them...

If the carbs have been sitting that long, I would recommend a chemical bath and TIME. If you use too harsh a chemical in order to get it done quickly, you may end up damaging the carbs' plastic parts. They've been sitting this long, what's a few more days?

Try this- take jets, float, inlet needle, and slides out, go to Goodwill and buy an old slow cooker (probably $10.00) large enough to hold the bank of carbs. Fill with Pine-sol and let simmer on low for a couple of days (check after a few hours to make sure nothing is melting). Blow through the carb passages, jets and air bleeds with carb cleaner. Evaluate and repeat if necessary.

Oh- also, the main jet holders DO NOT have a passage drilled all the way through! The hole is blind, with emulsion holes drilled from the side. Only the jet itself is drilled all the way through.

As for "chasing" the holes in the jets, I use an electrical cord (like from a floor lamp) and twist two(pilot jet) to three(Main jet) strands of the copper wire together and use those to push through the jets. The copper is softer than the brass of the jets and wont enlarge the hole.

BTW- the picture shows the brass air bleeds. If you squirt carb cleaner through one (I forget which) it will spray out of the main jet passage (where the needle sits). If you spray in the other it will come out of the cluster of TINY holes just behind the throttle plate. These are the pilot jet air bleeds. Air bleeds introduce a measured amount of air into the fuel stream, making finer droplets and allowing the air/fuel mixture to vaporize more easily and move through the passages more quickly in response to throttle movement and engine demand.
Chevy Fan Attic likes this.

Regards,
M.Rad.

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post #5 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-03-2018, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Rad. View Post
Be careful of those cleaning tools- they look suspiciously like oxy-acetylene torch tip cleaners. If so, they could easily enlarge the jet passages. I may be wrong, they could be soft and specifically made for carb jets, but from the looks of them....

Using them for more that 30 years, never had a problem before.

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Check out my blog @ https://koflaolivieri.blogspot.com/

2010 Kawasaki ZX-14
1984 Kawasaki GPz-1100
1978 Kawasaki KZ-1000 LTD
1977 Kawasaki KZ-1000
1975 Kawasaki Z1-900
1974 Kawasaki 750 H2 triple
1972 Kawasaki 750 H2 triple
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post #6 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-04-2018, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Rad. View Post
Be careful of those cleaning tools- they look suspiciously like oxy-acetylene torch tip cleaners. If so, they could easily enlarge the jet passages. I may be wrong, they could be soft and specifically made for carb jets, but from the looks of them...

If the carbs have been sitting that long, I would recommend a chemical bath and TIME. If you use too harsh a chemical in order to get it done quickly, you may end up damaging the carbs' plastic parts. They've been sitting this long, what's a few more days?

Try this- take jets, float, inlet needle, and slides out, go to Goodwill and buy an old slow cooker (probably $10.00) large enough to hold the bank of carbs. Fill with Pine-sol and let simmer on low for a couple of days (check after a few hours to make sure nothing is melting). Blow through the carb passages, jets and air bleeds with carb cleaner. Evaluate and repeat if necessary.

Oh- also, the main jet holders DO NOT have a passage drilled all the way through! The hole is blind, with emulsion holes drilled from the side. Only the jet itself is drilled all the way through.

As for "chasing" the holes in the jets, I use an electrical cord (like from a floor lamp) and twist two(pilot jet) to three(Main jet) strands of the copper wire together and use those to push through the jets. The copper is softer than the brass of the jets and wont enlarge the hole.

BTW- the picture shows the brass air bleeds. If you squirt carb cleaner through one (I forget which) it will spray out of the main jet passage (where the needle sits). If you spray in the other it will come out of the cluster of TINY holes just behind the throttle plate. These are the pilot jet air bleeds. Air bleeds introduce a measured amount of air into the fuel stream, making finer droplets and allowing the air/fuel mixture to vaporize more easily and move through the passages more quickly in response to throttle movement and engine demand.
Do everything this guy said to do.
You cant get the stuff we used to that coined the phrase "boil out the carbs" so what I do now is what Mr Rad suggests, Get a crock pot and put Dawn or what ever and cook them for a day or two. Make sure you get all the small o rings out that are buried in the carb body, like the air mixture screws and take note where they went and get new ones. Get an electrical cord and use the single strands to do the small ports etc. Get a can or 2 of Carb Cleaner and shoot it into a shot glass, put the pilot and main jets and let them soak for a day. Put the tip on the carb cleaner can and start blasting out every port, then push the wire back in them and douche them out again. Rinse in hot water and blow them out 1 more time with a air compressor. Carbs are mechanical big time, there is not much to adjust, if all the ports are clear and clean they will work. when reassembling them use some oil on the o rings so nothing gets torn, Also the diaphragms will likely be all out of shape, so use some axle grease in the groves of the carb bodies to kinda glue the diaphragms in place so when you put the lids on they stay where they need to be. |

you can do it, piece of cake Bro !!!!
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post #7 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-04-2018, 01:37 PM
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I would agree with all the recommended cleaning techniques and cautions except for one. I would not recommend using Pine-Sol to clean carbs unless making them smell good is your goal. The best way to thoroughly clean carbs inside and out is an ultrasonic cleaner. Harsh chemicals and home brews are iffy at best and could be destructive.
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post #8 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 08:49 AM
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What's wrong with good smelling carbs
Ninjanut is correct in his concern regarding chemical reactions, especially with the plastic parts, although Pinesol is on the low end of the harshness scale. Certainly less so than carb "dip" like Berryman, etc., but still a good idea to keep an eye on it as it cooks.
An ultrasonic cleaner would be a godsend for this type of work, unfortunately one large enough to put the whole carb bank in is somewhat expensive and may be hard to justify for occasional use. (I found a 10L model on the 'Bay for $120.00, so maybe not so bad?).

The point is that many deposits are a mixture of varnish left over from evaporated gasoline, combined with metal corrosion products like crusty aluminum oxide. These can be easily cleaned out of your jets with the aforementioned wire and chemical products, however if the old gas was sitting inside the machined passages of the carb the deposits may be inaccessible except through chemical means.
Really corroded carbs will require disassembly of the "bank" into separate units, removal of all jets, o-rings and plastic bits, and soaking in the aforementioned carb "dip".

Fortunately, in my experience, most of these passages are above the level of the float and therefor have minimal corrosion or heavy deposits. Usually a thorough jet clean takes care of 95% of carb dirt issues.

***YMMV***

Regards,
M.Rad.

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post #9 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 01:31 PM
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I have personally worked on bikes for which the owner told me of his Pine Sol cleaning and no help. When I took them apart, there was a white crust in some of the passages that was either the Pine Sol residue or some kind of reaction. I’m no chemist and don’t know exactly what it is but have seen it several times on carbs that the owners admitted to cleaning with Pine Sol.
I would simply remove all jets to clean and blast all passages with carb cleaner until clear, then blow out with air. Also clean all the filters in the float valve seats and replace the o-rings. Then reassemble to OEM specs to start.
This is only if the ultrasonic cleaner is not available, as this would be my preferred method.
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post #10 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 11:40 AM
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Do not use pine sol
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post #11 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 03:01 PM
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By the sounds of it I your first post (leaking on floor) they definitely need to be torn down, cleaned and rebuilt. Float valves are either shot, jammed open with crud, o-rings leaking or seats are leaking.
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post #12 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoflaOlivieri View Post
Using them for more that 30 years, never had a problem before.


Same here....... and Ive already torn mine down to the bones and replaced pilots, o rings and needle valves.... its all pretty cheap stuff really. Just takes a bit of time to do it right. While you are at it, rebuild the petcock, Gas tank filters & Fuel lines as well. Stuff is all pretty cheap. Bike is @ 70,000 miles now....

Just make sure on the Pilots you send the wire/tip cleaner in from the inner side to push the crap out, not cram it deeper in. You can soak them in thinner until the Earth is a dried up crisp orbiting a dead Sun, and those Pilots will still be plugged.

One of my Many Carb threads....

https://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-1...sure-neat.html

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Last edited by Blainethemono; 11-06-2018 at 03:55 PM.
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post #13 of 73 (permalink) Old 11-08-2018, 05:37 PM
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I always have problems with my carbs getting gummed up, even if it only sits for 4 or 5 months. The initial cleaning you are going to have to bite the bullet and take them all apart. You are bound to find a few of the o-rings have fallen apart. There are o-rings all over the place in those carbs. The float needles seem to always get junk in them and will allow the carbs to flood over. These bikes do not like to be flooded out. I've had a backfire in my garage a few times; loud as a shotgun. Buy a new set of float needles from ebay. They come in a pack of 5 usually. Clean out the needle seat the best you can. Do not use anything abrasive. I used a Q-Tip and a drill on mine with brake clean. Next is the idle jet circuit. Those start at the pilot jet and go through the idle air adjustment screw (needle jet) and come up into the carburetor on the downstream side of the butterfly. The idle air adjustment screw is a needle jet on the bottom of the carburetor that controls this circuit. You can adjust it with a flat head screwdriver. When you take the needle jet out, it will be a brass needle with threads, have a very small washer, spring, and tiny o-ring. I have found this to be the problem area when these bikes wont idle, run like crap at idle, or wont run unless the chock is on. If you have the carburetor all apart, pay extra care to the pilot jet and that needle jet assembly. Use ziplock bags for all the small parts! The needle jet assembly goes in order from top to bottom; O-ring - washer - spring - needle jet.

TIP: You can take the needle jet assembly out carefully without removing the carburetors (if you have good dexterity), and blow out the circuit with compressed air to get your bike running good again. To do this, you need to lay down some paper towels below the carburetors on top of the transmission to catch any falling small son-of-a-bitch parts. Use a short screwdriver that has a thin enough blade to get up into the hole and unscrew the needle jet. Carefully unscrew and let it fall into your hand, and if you mess that up, hopefully the paper towel catches it. Inspect it to see if the spring, washer, and o-ring came out. If not use a pick or screw to reach up in the hole and get them out. With all removed, use a can of brake clean, or carb cleaner with a little red tube attached to the nozzle. Bend the tube so it will slide up into the hole real nice and spray ample amounts of cleaner. Then use compressed air to blow into the hole. I found a rubber tube that I adapted to my air nozzle which I can make a pretty good seal onto the hole so I can hear the air flowing through the carburetors. If there is one that is plugged it will make a different sound. Spray more cleaner followed by more compressed air. When done, screw the needle jet assembly back into the hole it came out of. Mine is set for 3 turns out, but your if stock should be about 2. If successful, your bike should run great and you didn't have to take the carburetors off. Sorry for the long winded post. Hopefully it helps a lot of people.
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post #14 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Wow thanks for all the detailed replies.

Here is my update.

Had the carbs off 3 times since I posted.

I found the float pin retainer screws all missing - replaced.
Changed out the float needles and seats for new including o rings
Set the float heights to 13mm they were 24mm
Removed pilot jets and soaked in solvent for 24 hrs

I didn’t remove mixture screws or needles
I didn’t remove main jets and holders

I did soak bodies in carb cleaner.

Result - partial success.

She fired up and ran on all four with good power.
She idles well at even 8-900 rpm
No more leaks.

Remaining issues - she is a pig to start after being warmed up.
She will crank over just fine but won’t catch unless I hold the throttle wide open and crank for 30 seconds then she catches and runs.

Does this mean she is still flooding ?

I pulled the plugs and they were wet so air dried and cleaned and when replaced she started but then became hard to start again.

So if she idles once started does that eliminate the pilot circuit ?

Is it too much or too little fuel causing the hard start ?
She did do the shotgun backfire that scared my 9 year old to the point he hid in the truck

This is the Cali version so has the vacuum valve - could that be part of the issue ?

I also ran with the tank open to eliminate the tank vent but same symptoms.

Main tell tale is that the only way to get her started once warm is wide open throttle

Thanks. In advance !
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post #15 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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One more thing I thought of -

She is slow to come back down off revs - long overun
She is running rich too when running.
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post #16 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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This is her running

https://youtu.be/HXo7HFPOgH8
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post #17 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 12:52 PM
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It doesn't sound like you're hanging on high rpm when you release the throttle.
You're having a wet sparkplug issue..that's still induction related, so I'd keep looking at the carburetors. Pull the plugs and make sure they're properly gapped, and if they're the some ones from 10 years ago, that's easy...replace'em! Old plugs don't perform as well as they used to (kinda like us old guys).

It sounds like you've done a partial clean of the jets, but I'd still pull both the main and idle jets and clean them out completely. You'd be surprised at how persistent some of that sludge buildup can be, despite having been soaked. Air pressure or carb cleaner is your buddy, here.

Once that's done, seal'em up and fire up the bike. I'm willing to bet you'll get better results out of finishing the carb cleaning :)
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post #18 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you, the thing that is confusing me is the need to have her at wide open throttle to get her to start once hot.

Is she flooding or not getting enough fuel ?
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post #19 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Ok I guess I may be running super rich and leaning out the mixture by opening the throttle fully.
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post #20 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-19-2018, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so today I go get the Z out.

Fuel pump check - ok
Gravity fed carb - same issue
Removed airbox - no sign of excessive fuelling when running and cranking
Removed plugs 1 dry 234 wet
Cranked engine with plugs out - pot 2 fires fuel out all others dry

So I retested and issie still present so pulled carbs and stripped.
This tome I removed the pilot jets and cleared with wire - none were blocked.
Removed mains and checked - none blocked
Drilled welch plugs and removed mixture needle springs washers and o ring - all present and correct.

Cleaned all parts in carb cleaner

Blew through pilot jet port with carb cleaner - seen coming out at mixture acre hope, blew in mixture screw hole and is seen coming out down stream of butterfly on all carbs.

All indications are that carbs are good but will soak all in carb cleaner before reassembly tomorrow
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