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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-28-2006, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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tranny question

Hey. Just joined this zx forum. It looks like a great place to get or provide some info. I own a 93 C4 with a tranny problem. All of the gears work great and shift fine other then second. While awaiting my service manual to arive, I did some searching on the web and found two other, exact same bikes with the exact same problem. The problem is that when sifting into second gear, it engages, however, it will pop to neutral with basically any amount of trottle. I am curious as to if anybody else knows of this problem and better yet a solution. I am hoping to fix it myself so if anybody knows anything.

Thanks
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-28-2006, 06:27 PM
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This is a very common failure on ZX-11. You could get it repaired by replacing shifting forks but, usually, replacing gears is what need to be done. No need to split the engine to replace the forks but it's a tight fit though...
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 07:26 AM
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I have the same problem in my recently purchased '92 ZX11. The Kawi shop quoted around $1000-$1500 to remove engine and split case, replace the forks or other necessary parts, and reinstall. Said it was probably due to previous abuse and not a typical problem they see. I paid $2K for an otherwise clean bike so I have a little playing room for repairs.

On another note, I am having a heck of a time getting it up on its center stand. Is there something I'm missing (like brute strength) or is it something others have trouble with too?

-Rob
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 03:46 PM
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A ZX with a center stand??
This must be what we call the ZZr1100?
I dunno. Anyhoo, are you lifting the arse of the bike when stomping on the stand?
With a slow roll backward (less than a yard/meter) push down with your foot and lift with your hand in one smooth motion, the other hand on the handlebar is only for balancing the bike not for lifting/pulling.
This procedure works for all the bikes ive seen, even a goldwing. Strength is not the issue
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-21-2006, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slim1100
A ZX with a center stand??
This must be what we call the ZZr1100?
I dunno. Anyhoo, are you lifting the arse of the bike when stomping on the stand?
With a slow roll backward (less than a yard/meter) push down with your foot and lift with your hand in one smooth motion, the other hand on the handlebar is only for balancing the bike not for lifting/pulling.
This procedure works for all the bikes ive seen, even a goldwing. Strength is not the issue
Was trying to get it up on the center stand (yep it's a ZX11) while straddling it ... but only works like you described while hoisting it from the left side of the bike. Really turned out to be a non-event thanks to your advice.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-22-2006, 03:25 AM
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no probs bro
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-22-2006, 05:39 PM
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The shift dogs on second gear are the first to go on almost all bikes. It has to do with the fact that it is the lowest gear you shift into while on the power and may not be a result of abuse but normal wear. The sad fact is that the cases must be split to rectify the problem. Once fixed you should be good for quite a few thousand miles more. When your mechanic gets in there have him look for wear on all the other tranny parts. It is better to fix them now than have to split the cases agaiin in a couple thousand miles.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2006, 12:09 PM
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i have a zx1000 '87 [basic same bottom end as zx900/1000/10/11/zrx's/zzr's....when i rebuilt her i noticed the shift drum forks where'nt moving the shift drum far enough to engage second very well......i ground of about a 1/4 inch on the "bottom" of the PEG that stops the shift drum forks.....so that it would the move rollers alittle farther onto the plateu on the drum.

i think this can be done with the motor in the frame.

i also took out the 3 ball bearings on the output shaft that is kawasaki's "neutral finder" ....did'nt like to have to spin the shaft fast enough to engage second gear........but it is harder to find neutral doing this....but i got used to it....and more important to me is smooth shifting......but i think the best mod was the peg inbetween the shift drum forks being ground down around a 1/8 to a 1/4 inch.

also remember it makes a big diference to ,make sure theres no play in the gear shift lever[its tight on the shaft] and that its adjusted properly[lower or higher....make sure its a easy move of your foot and not difficult] you can do this with the adjusters also besides moving it to a different notch.

to keep this from happening to the shift forks[not the drum forks] again....shift gears correctly by using the clutch and lowering rpm inbetween shifts........i know its possible to shift up without clutch and a blip of throttle safetly.....but i don't think many do a good job:) the gears and forks in the zx kawasaki's are pretty dam strong and should get over 100k miles without problems.....unless someone is shifting wrong.

ofcourse i think it could need the mod i mention here.

Last edited by moko; 11-09-2006 at 12:13 PM.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2006, 01:10 PM
 
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Quote:
A ZX with a center stand??
This must be what we call the ZZr1100?
Nope mines a 90 zx11 with a stock center stand.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2006, 07:17 PM
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FYI, ZX-11 and ZZ-R1100 are the same exact bikes (except for paint/decals) and both have a centerstand. ZX-11 was sold in North America and ZZ-R1100 in the rest of the world.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-28-2007, 05:52 PM
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Do you have headers on the bike , mine hit and had to grind the center stand at the top to stop this . Dan

LIDMAN ZX11C
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 01:37 PM
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Hey Claude, my 96 is slipping out of gear at first it would go into 3rd then a few seconds after being into it it would slip for sec then would be ok, now it just slips the whole time, so i started just skipping 3rd did that for like 4 months now 4th is starting off the way 3rd did ugh...was hoping it was shift forks, but now I dont know...what do you think?

Vette
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-10-2007, 02:33 PM
 
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when those dog teeth on the side of the gears wear, causing the gear to jump out, as the pop out and back in, they do put alot of strain on the shifting forks. This may cause them to bend slightly, and will then start to overly wear then next gear, as the bent shifting fork cannot engage the next gear correctly. I have a zx10r which i ride regularly, but have just had to replace 2nd 3rd and 4th on a second hand R1 i also purchased, in which this problem was occuring
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-11-2007, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetteman761 View Post
Hey Claude, my 96 is slipping out of gear at first it would go into 3rd then a few seconds after being into it it would slip for sec then would be ok, now it just slips the whole time, so i started just skipping 3rd did that for like 4 months now 4th is starting off the way 3rd did ugh...was hoping it was shift forks, but now I dont know...what do you think?
Vette
I think your tranny is now begging for a repair. Now that those gears are slipping, the engaging dogs are surely rounded off and the gears need to be replaced.
Maybe your best bet is to buy a complete used tranny and drop it in your engine. It will minimize your turn over time for sure.
If you want this to avoid in the future, get the gears undercutted by Fast By Gast (in NY) or R&D (in Florida). Let us know...
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-08-2007, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude View Post
I think your tranny is now begging for a repair. Now that those gears are slipping, the engaging dogs are surely rounded off and the gears need to be replaced.
Maybe your best bet is to buy a complete used tranny and drop it in your engine. It will minimize your turn over time for sure.
If you want this to avoid in the future, get the gears undercutted by Fast By Gast (in NY) or R&D (in Florida). Let us know...

Claude,, what is undercutting???? My 90 ZX11 has the 2nd gear slip sometimes and I want to fix it and do it right the first time. Thanks
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-08-2007, 07:42 PM
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Undercutting is cutting a small angles into the matching dogs of two gears to allow a more positive "grip" between them. You need to leave this job to the specialists though. FBG and R&D (among others for sure...) are both famous for this.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-08-2007, 07:58 PM
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Well that makes sense, would they do only 2nd or do you do all of them??
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-08-2007, 10:05 PM
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It's mainly #2 and #3 that needs it. I think they also do it on #4, 5 and 6 but with slightly smaller angles (less machining involved and less backlash is induced).
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-10-2007, 01:14 PM
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Thanks Claude,,, that will be my winter project.
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