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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Post More oil tests for comparison

Found this article on the net, self calling as true lab comparison:

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=1&t=31517

So you can see what makes the oil additives ZZDP, moly and titanium having not much of a difference, in car or bike oil considered there. ZDDP was lowered for longer catalist converter life, also that racing oils (less dispersants and detergents) are now called NSL not street legal oil, because they still have high leves of zinc and phosforous (ZDDP).

Look for yourself

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You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 05:25 PM
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Valvoline 4T was the only motorcycle oil tested.

None were tested in actual use, specifically, in a common sump/transmission motor, so the tests were irrelevant as motorcycle-related information.

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Last edited by Hammerhead; 07-29-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 05:55 PM
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And it wasn't synthetic
10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil conventional, API SJ = 65,553 psi
zinc = 1154 ppm
phos = 1075 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Valvoline 4T was the only motorcycle oil tested.

None were tested in actual use, specifically, in a common sump/transmission motor, so the tests were irrelevant as motorcycle-related information.
I'm not concerned by motorcycle oils only, like you guys are. Oil and Lubrication serves for all engines, the only difference is clutch and gear bath, that was the same as in a Ford T model. And the test was hard environment with high pressure to scar iron, high temperature 230F all the time. Same conditions for all, is important when comparing oils. My bike and yours would be very different conditions. I think its better than propaganda, though.

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You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 185EZ View Post
And it wasn't synthetic
10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil conventional, API SJ = 65,553 psi
zinc = 1154 ppm
phos = 1075 ppm
moly = 0 ppm
Shit oil I know, the bike oil! Then you can see car oils going much better, even conventional. Lots of people (most) use conventional oil. I Couldn't find Diesel oil comparison to bike and car oils.

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He isn't wrong this time.
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No sweat, and you are right
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Originally Posted by Blainethemono View Post
You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozzyflyer View Post
Shit oil I know, the bike oil! Then you can see car oils going much better, even conventional. Lots of people (most) use conventional oil. I Couldn't find Diesel oil comparison to bike and car oils.
The 'scar' test only measures the gooey thickness of the oil. Gear oil will test better than motor oil.

Unless someone comes up with a multi-product 4T oil test involving a dyno and some wear measurements on parts of identical machines, this thread is a total waste of bandwidth.

You might as well be talking about different brands of olive oil.

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozzyflyer View Post
I'm not concerned by motorcycle oils only, like you guys are. Oil and Lubrication serves for all engines.
Uhhh, it's a motorcycle forum.

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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 09:48 AM
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The tests seem to be favoring Quaker State Defy oil, and I have never liked Quaker state oil. I am sure it is better now than when I tried it years ago, but I'll just stick with Mobile 1!




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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 11:23 AM
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Regardless of what the test says, it's mostly meaningless for purposes of motorcycle use. Quaker State devises a test and SURPRISE! Quaker State rates at the top. Amsoil devises a test and guess who? Amsoil is #1. Ya coulda knocked me over with a feather.

Several guys I went to college with ended up working at an independent oil test facility. They used newly rebuilt American V-8s and I-6s run on test benches with different brands of oil. After so many thousands of hours, they tore the motors down and measured the wear on bearings, pistons rings valves etc.

THAT is an oil test. Everything else is bullshit. Test the oil in the type of engine it's intended for and compare the wear results against other oils of the same weight and type. And while you're at it. test the engines on a dyno to see if any of the oils are sapping power to protect parts. Then get back to me.

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Ok HH you like hands on work and don't like lab work. This doesn't mean they're useless. You made your point that this is a motorcycle forum . Zovat?

Until we can do test by ourselves we have to take a pint of salt from what other say. Zovat?

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Rosettaflyer is right,
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He isn't wrong this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomeg1 View Post
No sweat, and you are right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blainethemono View Post
You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
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Last edited by Bobflyer; 07-30-2013 at 12:55 PM. Reason: Zovat?
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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Have you heard of Dexos specs oil charged by GM? Oil evolve, some manufactures go beyond API ASTM tests, and start new rules on the subject.

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Rosettaflyer is right,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post
He isn't wrong this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomeg1 View Post
No sweat, and you are right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blainethemono View Post
You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
Captain, Oil Slingin, Fuel Sniffin, High Flying Post Whore of ZXF.

Sir Long Quote Attachin, Goat Urine Huntin, Holy Oil Batman Whore of ZXF.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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The tests seem to be favoring Quaker State Defy oil, and I have never liked Quaker state oil. I am sure it is better now than when I tried it years ago, but I'll just stick with Mobile 1!
QS Isn't the winner, just the newer to be compared with several other. Maybe this is a QS pal, who knows, I won't take your salt from ya.

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Rosettaflyer is right,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post
He isn't wrong this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomeg1 View Post
No sweat, and you are right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blainethemono View Post
You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
Captain, Oil Slingin, Fuel Sniffin, High Flying Post Whore of ZXF.

Sir Long Quote Attachin, Goat Urine Huntin, Holy Oil Batman Whore of ZXF.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Regardless of what the test says, it's mostly meaningless for purposes of motorcycle use. Quaker State devises a test and SURPRISE! Quaker State rates at the top. Amsoil devises a test and guess who? Amsoil is #1. Ya coulda knocked me over with a feather.

Several guys I went to college with ended up working at an independent oil test facility. They used newly rebuilt American V-8s and I-6s run on test benches with different brands of oil. After so many thousands of hours, they tore the motors down and measured the wear on bearings, pistons rings valves etc.

THAT is an oil test. Everything else is bullshit. Test the oil in the type of engine it's intended for and compare the wear results against other oils of the same weight and type. And while you're at it. test the engines on a dyno to see if any of the oils are sapping power to protect parts. Then get back to me.
Yeah, than comes HH and says: But the ferrous material din't came from the same mine ... That was the cause for the wear, not the bike oil.

You and your endless B.S.

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Rosettaflyer is right,
Quote:
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He isn't wrong this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomeg1 View Post
No sweat, and you are right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blainethemono View Post
You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
Captain, Oil Slingin, Fuel Sniffin, High Flying Post Whore of ZXF.

Sir Long Quote Attachin, Goat Urine Huntin, Holy Oil Batman Whore of ZXF.

Last edited by Bobflyer; 07-30-2013 at 01:05 PM.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 01:50 PM
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Automotive or motorcycle, the article didn't change my mind.
I use Mobil 1 conventional in all my vehicles and Mobil1 synthetic in the bikes.
What oil do you use, Ozzy?

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 02:11 PM
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Yeah, than comes HH and says: But the ferrous material din't came from the same mine ... That was the cause for the wear, not the bike oil.

You and your endless B.S.

I don't know what that first part means, but I bow to your expertise in the realm of bullshit. Feel free to pimp all the car oil you want. If I hadn't bumped this ridiculous thread, nobody would be reading it.

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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Automotive or motorcycle, the article didn't change my mind.
I use Mobil 1 conventional in all my vehicles and Mobil1 synthetic in the bikes.
What oil do you use, Ozzy?
EZ I'm using Petronas Syntium 3000 5w40 now, car oil, with 200 ml of Molycote, Hahaha. With very good results.

HH, you're so full for shit. 85 readers and counting...

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Originally Posted by Rideit View Post
Rosettaflyer is right,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post
He isn't wrong this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomeg1 View Post
No sweat, and you are right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blainethemono View Post
You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
Captain, Oil Slingin, Fuel Sniffin, High Flying Post Whore of ZXF.

Sir Long Quote Attachin, Goat Urine Huntin, Holy Oil Batman Whore of ZXF.

Last edited by Bobflyer; 07-30-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Past 101 readers, HH, I think you're a great contributor for this thread, w/o u what would it be? HAhahahahaha MAnezao!!!!

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Rosettaflyer is right,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post
He isn't wrong this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomeg1 View Post
No sweat, and you are right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blainethemono View Post
You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
Captain, Oil Slingin, Fuel Sniffin, High Flying Post Whore of ZXF.

Sir Long Quote Attachin, Goat Urine Huntin, Holy Oil Batman Whore of ZXF.
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-30-2013, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Valvoline 4T was the only motorcycle oil tested.

None were tested in actual use, specifically, in a common sump/transmission motor, so the tests were irrelevant as motorcycle-related information.
Was tested, huh ? Do you have the results of such a testing in your own oil to compare with other oils, or go by the label?

Yeah, I know ... the label. But the label came with Lab tests ... Did you tear down you lawn mower to know?

Or do you really thing they would wait you run your bike 10 years? Come on ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rideit View Post
Rosettaflyer is right,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post
He isn't wrong this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomeg1 View Post
No sweat, and you are right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blainethemono View Post
You are correct.... the breakage of the polymer chains is what causes the degradation, not the destruction of the molecules themselves.
Captain, Oil Slingin, Fuel Sniffin, High Flying Post Whore of ZXF.

Sir Long Quote Attachin, Goat Urine Huntin, Holy Oil Batman Whore of ZXF.

Last edited by Bobflyer; 08-01-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-01-2013, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman14 View Post
The tests seem to be favoring Quaker State Defy oil, and I have never liked Quaker state oil. I am sure it is better now than when I tried it years ago, but I'll just stick with Mobile 1!
You and me RM. I think most of us have tried all the varieties and have a pretty good feel for what seems to work and what doesn't cut the mustard.

You can cite study after study, but if Mobile 1 synthetic is listed as anything other than premium grade motor oil, then I must just be extremely lucky with its use. Two vehicles that went into the 220K range before I sold them. And changing oil became a joke. I changed it once, maybe twice a year, but always over 7,500 miles, sometimes into the 10K - 12K range. No mechanical issues. No failures. No smoke from worn piston rings. I'm a little more strict for this one motorcycle that gets beat on weekend after weekend. I forgot when I changed it's oil last; somewhere around 63K, maybe? I know it's due for a change soon though.


Alright! Trading bikes for a while was fun.I'm ready for mine back. No, seriously, get off my bike. Ahh, what a privilege it is to have such a sweet ride.
At the track she's said to be outclassed, but on the street, she reigns unmatched. She's the only big-bore canyon carving hypermiler I know of. -- Picture gallery, K&N air filter, SuperTrapp Aluminum Racing Series exhaust (Made in USA), ZG touring shield, & otherwise stock.
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-01-2013, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzyflyer View Post
EZ I'm using Petronas Syntium 3000 5w40 now, car oil, with 200 ml of Molycote, Hahaha. With very good results.

HH, you're so full for shit. 85 readers and counting...
Ozzy, what I find kinda funny is it takes me months, if not longer, to find out what these sponsor names are, like you see on MotoGP bikes and F1 cars. When I first saw Repsol, I thought it was a soft drink, like Orange Crush or Mountain Dew. Same for Petronas. Is that a bank?

The reason being, those products aren't readily available here in the U.S. Not sure why, but if I had to guess, I'd say you're the only ZXF member that uses a Petronas product.

Sorry for the thread-jack.

Alright! Trading bikes for a while was fun.I'm ready for mine back. No, seriously, get off my bike. Ahh, what a privilege it is to have such a sweet ride.
At the track she's said to be outclassed, but on the street, she reigns unmatched. She's the only big-bore canyon carving hypermiler I know of. -- Picture gallery, K&N air filter, SuperTrapp Aluminum Racing Series exhaust (Made in USA), ZG touring shield, & otherwise stock.
Science & OODA literate. ACA covered.
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