Top end KNOCK after valve adjustment : Kawasaki ZX Forums: Kawasaki Ninja Forum
» Sponsors
» Insurance
Go Back   ZX Forums > Kawasaki Motorcycles > ZX-7R Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-27-2009, 07:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
Top end KNOCK after valve adjustment

Completed my valve adjustment and it is still knocking. I know the zx7 will tick...but this is way too loud!!!

While I was in there, I noticed the PO filled in the holes on the head that lead to the reed valve on the head cover. This didn't seem right to me!!! I know pins need to go in there...but what is the purpose of these pins and the and the reed valve?

Is this why it's knocking? What else can I do? No dealer near by to take it to. Bike runs great otherwise (except for the awful noise). My wife said she can hear it knocking when she's in the house!

HELP!!!
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-27-2009, 09:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: So. Fla
I Ride: Anything on 2. Fave toys currently are: 96 ZX7R Race, 96 ZX7R Street, 04 636, 01 R6 Race, 68 Shovel Chop, 47 Knuckle Chop, 73 CB350 Cafe, 67 Spitfire

Posts: 57
Do you have the stock CCT? (Cam Chain Tensioner) You might need to bump your CCT a few notches. It is true, the engine is funky loud but if it gets to the point of sounding like a CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK! from a diesel engine the cam chain is probably slapping around. It's happened to me before so I bought APE manual tensioners for both my ZX7s (and every bike I own I can get one for) after that.
stack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 02:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
Thanks for the suggestion. I took a look at it, and it appears to be original. I'll pull it out and inspect it just to make sure.

When I got home, I took off the valve cover and did a closer inspection of the camshaft. The Intake side of the #3 cylinder has some chunks out of the lobe. Could this cause the ticking? I can try to find a new cam, but if this is the problem, what are the dangers of running the engine with this scarred cam?

Any help is always greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 02:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Hammerhead's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
From: Southern Illinois
I Ride: '07 ZX-14

Posts: 9,445
KHI has had some quality-control issues with cam suppliers in the past-ask anyone who owns an '02 ZZR12. You can run pitted cams for thousands of miles without a major issue although they are hard on followers. The pits in the cams are not what's making your noise. It's likely the camchain tensioner as previously mentioned. The reed valves are pollution control devices that admit air into the exhaust ports to assist in completely burning leftover combustibles before they reach the catlytic converter which could sustain damage to the metal matrix from unburned fuel.
__________________
It may be a pig, but it's a pig with a rocket in it's ass!
Hammerhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 03:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
KHI has had some quality-control issues with cam suppliers in the past-ask anyone who owns an '02 ZZR12. You can run pitted cams for thousands of miles without a major issue although they are hard on followers. The pits in the cams are not what's making your noise. It's likely the camchain tensioner as previously mentioned. The reed valves are pollution control devices that admit air into the exhaust ports to assist in completely burning leftover combustibles before they reach the catlytic converter which could sustain damage to the metal matrix from unburned fuel.
Each time you have helped me, your advice has been backed with knowlege and experince. Thanks for the help. I was freaking out over the cam! You've calmed me back down.

A cam on bike bandit was almost $300!!! I hope it's just the timing chain tensioner! I'll update when I know. Thanks again!!!
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 11:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
suprajztwenty's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
From: dallas, TX
I Ride: 97 zx7r (p2)

Posts: 1,599
mine isnt really a slapping noise but just one of those kawi noises-it IS getting on my nerves now tho! somtime this summer ill get a new valve cover "isolator" (or thingamagigger) that goes over the chain-assuming it just reduces noise...but a new chain, tensioner and valve adjustment is in order in the next few months-hopfully itll cure it. all looked well when i pulled the remains of the old isolator out before it got into the oil system
suprajztwenty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2009, 06:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
quik89Kat's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: PA

Posts: 108
Haha the normal kawi noise , It sounds like its gonna blow up , ditto on the camshaft though you can run it I'd change it just to be safe , you dont wanna be doing 65 and have the lobe crack off , Ive heard it gets louder for alot of people after a valve adjustment dont know why though

On a side note I fixed the clutch pushrod seal on mine and changed the oil now the noise is quieter ...go figure maybe I had a bubble in the oil system or something Idk , Im running mine without the valve cover isolater too ,
mine just broke into 2 and I took it out congrats to kawi for designing my diesel zx7r
__________________
1992 kawi ZX7, 2003 fairings,1993 tank,Fcr carbs,muzzy titanium can on 1994 kawi "race kit" exhaust,,Race kit oil catch can ,RR rear light bracket,fp ignition advancer,FP jet kit,SS brake lines,polished frame,fairing stay,swingarm,gas cap,bored and stroked to 799cc, soon to be powered by a muzzy raptor engine
"Burn rubber,not your soul""
ASE cert. tech
quik89Kat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 09:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
I took a look at the timing chain and the manual. It didn't say how you can tell if the chain is loose. How much should it move (if at all)?

I'm going to get a video of the knocking on here after it's back together. Maybe you guys can tell me if there is more wrong than it seems.

Thanks.
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 10:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
quik89Kat's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: PA

Posts: 108
the chain should be pretty tight if you push on it between the cams it should barely move and be pretty stiff like your bending a 1/4" metal brake line , in my 89-96 manual it has the measurement for deflection measured over 20 links , it's a bitch to change though as theres a ridge in the block so you gotta split the cases or grind down the ridge on the 96+ bikes
__________________
1992 kawi ZX7, 2003 fairings,1993 tank,Fcr carbs,muzzy titanium can on 1994 kawi "race kit" exhaust,,Race kit oil catch can ,RR rear light bracket,fp ignition advancer,FP jet kit,SS brake lines,polished frame,fairing stay,swingarm,gas cap,bored and stroked to 799cc, soon to be powered by a muzzy raptor engine
"Burn rubber,not your soul""
ASE cert. tech
quik89Kat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 07:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
I pushed on the chain, and I can get it to move down between 1/8" and 1/4".

It feels pretty tight, but I think it moves more than it should. I'll look into an APE tensioner.

I've heard a loose timing chain on an S10 (4cyl) - but it didn't sound like my bike does. The ticking seems to be in time with a cylinder...and there is no other noise except a clean sounding knock that matches the RPM's.

A friend said I should check the height of the valve springs to make sure none are broken or worn out.

If this gets too deep, I may end up giving up. I can only do so much with this bike before I won't be able to put more $$$ into it.

I'll keep you all posted!

Troy
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 07:17 AM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
Update

Well, I got everything back together, eliminating all possible noises (including chain tensoiner and valve clearances). And this thing is tapping like I didn't do a thing!!! I let it warm up and took it for my first real ride... it runs great and pulls strong, but this tapping is a bad bad sign. I can hear it at any speed ( with my helmet on at any rpm).

I think I need to post a video of it so you guys can tell me what you think. My fear is that it goes deeper than I have ever been. After listening to the knocking closer (trying to pinpoint the location) it sounds like it might be coming from just below the head. I can pull the head off and have an experienced mechanic look at it, but what else could it be. I know it didn't spin a rod bearing. The noise is to high up and to high pitched. Yet it sounds more solid than the typical top end problems.

What are some things I should inspect if the motor is coming out???
I just don't have enough experience for this one.

Thanks in advance for any help!
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 07:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
2fat2fly's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
From: Ohio
I Ride: 91 ZX7R,93 ZX7R,00 ZX12R, 87 YSR50, 87 GSXR750,93 ZX7, 92 ZX7

Posts: 4,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by buudy22 View Post
Well, I got everything back together, eliminating all possible noises (including chain tensoiner and valve clearances). And this thing is tapping like I didn't do a thing!!! I let it warm up and took it for my first real ride... it runs great and pulls strong, but this tapping is a bad bad sign. I can hear it at any speed ( with my helmet on at any rpm).

I think I need to post a video of it so you guys can tell me what you think. My fear is that it goes deeper than I have ever been. After listening to the knocking closer (trying to pinpoint the location) it sounds like it might be coming from just below the head. I can pull the head off and have an experienced mechanic look at it, but what else could it be. I know it didn't spin a rod bearing. The noise is to high up and to high pitched. Yet it sounds more solid than the typical top end problems.

What are some things I should inspect if the motor is coming out???
I just don't have enough experience for this one.

Thanks in advance for any help!

If you can pull the oil pan with the engine still in the bike,I'd recommend doing that and checking the connecting rods.I would start with the #3 rod.Then go through the rest of them.Have an experienced mechanic check it.You're looking for a spun rod bearing.I hope this isn't the case,but sometimes it will sound like it is coming from up high in the engine.I'm only suggesting this because it sounds like you've eliminated everything else.
2fat2fly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 07:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
Thanks bud.

I did have the oil pan off (after an unfortunate incident with dropping a feeler gauge )
While I was in there I grabbed the caps on each cylinder and gave them a good shake. although they slid side to side a minimal amount, there did not seem to be any play up and down.

Maybe I'll pull the pan and drop the cap on #3 just to make sure. I can't get at #4, it too far in the case.

BTW Checked the plugs - they were pretty good (no sign of oil blow by or anything)

I'm gonna have a friend do a leak down test on it...just might take a couple weeks to connect with him.
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 07:56 AM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
2fat2fly's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
From: Ohio
I Ride: 91 ZX7R,93 ZX7R,00 ZX12R, 87 YSR50, 87 GSXR750,93 ZX7, 92 ZX7

Posts: 4,719
I just re-read your whole post here.Have you checked the exhaust manifold gaskets?If you haven't then tighten all the exhaust bolts where the exhaust bolts to the head.If this reduces the noise but doesn't eliminate it then you will need new exhaust gaskets.If just re-torquing them does the trick then this was a free fix.If you need exhaust gaskets then you're out $12.00 and your time.DEFINITELY try this before doing my previously posted suggestion!!Good luck.
2fat2fly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 07:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
Thanks, I'll give it a try. I think the sound was coming from farther back, but it doesn't hurt to take a look. I'll only have to pull of the front fairing to get at these anyway.
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 08:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
2fat2fly's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
From: Ohio
I Ride: 91 ZX7R,93 ZX7R,00 ZX12R, 87 YSR50, 87 GSXR750,93 ZX7, 92 ZX7

Posts: 4,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by buudy22 View Post
Thanks bud.

I did have the oil pan off (after an unfortunate incident with dropping a feeler gauge )
While I was in there I grabbed the caps on each cylinder and gave them a good shake. although they slid side to side a minimal amount, there did not seem to be any play up and down.

Maybe I'll pull the pan and drop the cap on #3 just to make sure. I can't get at #4, it too far in the case.

BTW Checked the plugs - they were pretty good (no sign of oil blow by or anything)

I'm gonna have a friend do a leak down test on it...just might take a couple weeks to connect with him.
If you did that I'd say you're pretty good to go there.When I do that check I have the spark plugs out so there is no chance of cylinder pressure giving me a false reading.The gear attached to the crank that drives the transmission is attached at the #3 cylinder.This causes #3 to usually be the first cylinder to suffer any failures.It is the first to be loaded,etc.If you want to be safe,then just pull #2and #3 when you're in there again.When I check them,I move them front-back,up-down and side-side.I'm just very paranoid when checking them and want to be completely positive they're good.
2fat2fly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 08:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
I didn't even think about pulling the plugs when I checked it. THat is a really good point.

I'll take them in order. Exhaust first, then bottom end. Thanks again!

Any chance it could be a wrist pin or connecting rod? It ticks, but it doesn't sound like there is anything rattling around (like marbles). Definitely metal on metal (obviously)
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 08:19 AM   #18 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
2fat2fly's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
From: Ohio
I Ride: 91 ZX7R,93 ZX7R,00 ZX12R, 87 YSR50, 87 GSXR750,93 ZX7, 92 ZX7

Posts: 4,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by buudy22 View Post
I didn't even think about pulling the plugs when I checked it. THat is a really good point.

I'll take them in order. Exhaust first, then bottom end. Thanks again!

Any chance it could be a wrist pin or connecting rod? It ticks, but it doesn't sound like there is anything rattling around (like marbles). Definitely metal on metal (obviously)
Wrist pins really don't expire anymore.The metallurgy and technology of even 25 years ago (compared to the 60's and 70's) has progressed so much that those things are kind of a thing of the past.If a rod was going south chances are it would have already broken.The ticking sound could very well be the exhaust gaskets.While you're looking at them also look your exhaust over for cracks or holes in the pipes.When looking at the rods,are any of them discolored like they've experienced high heat?Metal tends to turn blue if overheated.A bad rod bearing could be totally quiet when starting a cold engine.Then gets noisier as it warms up.An exhaust leak,however will be there from the first start up when cold and stay there all the time.
2fat2fly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 09:19 AM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
The sound is there all the time...hot or cold...sunny or rainy.

It does not get louder with RPM's - just matches the speed of the engine. When I'm on the bike, I hear it easily over my muzzy pipe, but it is really loud when I put my head next to the right side of the engine. I'll check exhaust leak when I get home.

It sure does seem like it's coming from in the engine though. I look and let you know.

Thanks so much for your input 2fat2fly! I have seen some of your work - you are awesome!

I'll post some pics of my bike - maybe you can tell me if this is worth all the energy.
buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 09:35 AM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
buudy22's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
From: Michigan
I Ride: 1988 zx750

Posts: 150
Is it worth it?

Here are some pics. With everthing I have had to buy to get the bike back to original, I'm just short of $1k (not including my time of course). The bike has 39,000 on it. If I have to rebuild the motor is it worth it? What do you think. I've seen similar bikes go for less than $1k.



buudy22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:12 PM.



Powered by: vBulletin 3.8.5
Copyright ©2005-2010 - www.zxforums.com
Website designed and developed by Random Computers
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0