Bike is running funny...plz help

[lubetek]

Hi, first time here and I have quite the problem. Let me get right to it:

Bike is a 2001 Kawasaki Ninja ZX7R California model. 25k on the od.
The only mods done to the bike:

Muzzy's slip on can, +4 ignition advancer, Screen removed from air filter box and UNI filter installed.

The bike sat for 3 years. 1 year with the tank on the bike and gas sitting in the carbs and the last two years with carbs empty and the tank off.

Recently I decided to start working on it and I did the following:

Ran a cleaner in the tank, new spark plugs, new UNI air filter, new coolant, new oil & filter, and new battery.

The bike fired up the first try but sounded off. It sounded like it wasn't getting enough gas and the exhaust note was off. I discovered that a bolt had fallen out of the muzzy can so I installed a new bolt which in turn sealed the leak.

Started the bike up and it sounded much better and I thought everything was ok. I did a test run on the bike and it ran awesome!! all kinds of power down low and up high. I was happy.

Then I hit a lot of traffic in town and while sitting at the redlight the engine of course got much hotter. It started running rough and when I pulled away from the light it was gasping and choking. After a handful of seconds and with the increase of the throttle it started to clear up and then it was running fine while I drove 50mph down the street. Everything was fine again.

This problem continues to happen every time I ride so I changed out the fuel filter (just to rule that out) and it runs a bit better than before (the old filter was partially clogged and original) Though it did feel a bit better I still ran into the issue with the bike running like shit when its hot and I'm sitting at idle.


This is so confusing. The bike runs awesome down the free way and it even runs awesome in town at low rpm but as soon as the engine gets hot and I'm sitting at a red light it starts to run like crap and stutters/chokes when i try to drive away. Like I said before; it does clear up once I get driving and I get the rpms up higher.

I'm at a total loss. I am not capable of taking the carbs off and cleaning them myself so I want to take the bike into the shop. They will charge me $320 to take em off and clean them. My concern is this: Could it be something other than the carbs causing this issue? WHY does it run fine at low rpm when the bike is cold but doesn't when its hot (Meaning engine temp)????

If it were the carbs that are jacked up wouldn't they behave badly all the time?

Any input is welcome because I just don't understand this. I can go out right now, turn my bike on and it idles and sounds perfect. crank the gas and it sounds good. Let it sit there just running and when the needle hits the half way mark on the temp guage it starts to run and sound like shit at low rpm.

I thought maybe the coils were weak? Maybe the electrical is straining the system and when the fan kicks on the bike doesn't get spark properly? but if that were true and the fan kicking on at high temp was the cause, then why wouldn't the problem go away when the fan turns off?

I'm really leaning towards the carbs right now but I'll be bummed if I spend all that money and my problem is still present.

I had hoped someone here might have experienced this and could give some insight.

Sorry for the long post but I thought I should explain everything in detail.

[howdydee2003]

I had the same problem, there wasnt enough coolant lol. Tilt the bikeover on the clutch lever side and let the coolant drain more into the system, keep repeating until completely full. That helped me and i said the same problem, shoot my bike even died if i sat at a light too long lol. But now its fine, and gets a little hot waiting at lights :)

[lubetek]

I don't get it? Tip the bike over? How will that do anything? My rad is full, the overflow is filled up....I don't understand what you are talking about.

[ZX7Project]

Originally Posted by lubetek

I don't get it? Tip the bike over? How will that do anything? My rad is full, the overflow is filled up....I don't understand what you are talking about.

He means Tip the bike over further than what the Kick stand does, So all the coolant will be on that side. Then pop the cap and top it off.

Is it a possibility that there is air in the water pump, Did you open the bleed screw?

[lubetek]

Was his bike overheating? Was that the cause of his issue? Maybe I'm just not that smart when it comes to coolant systems but if my temps are normal why would the coolant be an issue? My bike never overheats, the temp is always as it should be.

I'll go tip it over and check though.

[lubetek]

It doesn't seem to be a coolant issue. I tipped the bike to the side and and had my wife pop the cap; the coolant was good. The overflow tank is full. The engine temps seem normal to me. Even at its hottest temp the temp gauge doesn't go past the half way mark (which is how it was the day I bought the bike brand new). Right when the needle hits half way on the gauge the fan kicks on and cools it down to below the half way mark and then kicks off.

If I were having an issue with the coolant not getting circulated properly then I would be over heating even with the fan running. This doesn't seem to be the problem though I thank both of you for trying.

I'm dropping the bike off at the shop today to have the carbs removed and cleaned. I'll be crossing my fingers that this is my problem.

If not then my next step will be to test the spark. I hope it doesn't get to that point or beyond.

Thanks again!

Chuck

[ZX7Project]

Originally Posted by lubetek

It doesn't seem to be a coolant issue. I tipped the bike to the side and and had my wife pop the cap; the coolant was good. The overflow tank is full. The engine temps seem normal to me. Even at its hottest temp the temp gauge doesn't go past the half way mark (which is how it was the day I bought the bike brand new). Right when the needle hits half way on the gauge the fan kicks on and cools it down to below the half way mark and then kicks off.

If I were having an issue with the coolant not getting circulated properly then I would be over heating even with the fan running. This doesn't seem to be the problem though I thank both of you for trying.

I'm dropping the bike off at the shop today to have the carbs removed and cleaned. I'll be crossing my fingers that this is my problem.

If not then my next step will be to test the spark. I hope it doesn't get to that point or beyond.

Thanks again!

Chuck

I was just helping you with His response.

It doesn't entirely sound like a carb problem.

Have you checked your Choke Freeplay adjustment? Is the choke sitting partially open, Even tho the lever is all the way on OFF.

That would cause a rich condition. Which is good for a cold engine, Bad for a warm one.

[ZX7Project]

Also, Can you feel/hear the Fuel Pump turning on? Hook up a Multimeter into the Fuel Pump Leads with the fuel pump still connected to the bike, And Start it up. How many volts are making it to the pump? If none then Check the Fuel Pump Relay. If you are getting power, Is the Fuel pump pumping?

[OrangeShirtDude]

You might be experiencing the typical weirdness after a bike has sat for a long period with gas in the fuel system. Maybe some jets are partially clogged. If the bike is running lean as a result, it might get too hot in the cylinders but not in the coolant system.

Let us know how it behaves after the shop does the work.

[lubetek]

I agree it doesn't seem like it would be only the carbs causing this issue and that is what has been racking my brain. The fuel pump is working. I haven't tested the volts but it runs great down the freeway and around town when the rpm's higher than 2.5k. Its not till the rpms sit at idle for a handful of seconds till i experience this issue.

I will for sure return in a day or two after the carbs have been cleaned and let you guys know what happened and how she is running.

[davewaibel]

this may be obvious, but have you opened the fuel bowl drain screws, and emptied the carbs completely, sound like varnish, or water in the system- when accelerating it is pulled to the back of the carb and out of the way, when sitting at a light it is inhibiting fuel delivery, and causing the engine to work harder and more inefficiently. just a thought

[lubetek]

Well I took it to the Kawasaki shop last night and after explaining to the Manager the problem with the bike he tells me it doesn't sound like the carbs to him. He then goes on to say that he feels they can solve my issue but he recommends that I go to this other guy a handful of miles away. he tells me this other guy has a knack for figuring out bike issues and really knows his shit. He told me since I had several mods done to the bike that I'd be better off with this other guy.

So I took it to the other guy and with any luck I should hear from him today or tomorrow at the latest. I talked to a few people about this guy and people call him the Bike Dr.

I just hope the Bike Dr doesn't kill my bank account.

[lubetek]

So I just got off the phone with the mechanic. He tells me that my carbs need to be cleaned and rebuilt. That some seals on the carbs are leaking, jets clogged etc...

He then goes on to say my valves need to be cleaned and adjusted and that he thinks the bikes been ran hard over the years (which it has been) and that he could tell it sat for a few years.

Services required and recommended:

front and rear brake pad replacement
valve cleaning and adjustment
carb cleaning and rebuild
replacement of left clip on (I asked him to do this and supplied the parts needed)

Total cost: $1150.00 (He stated his estimate went a bit high to cover extra parts)

Damn that was unexpected.

I have to swing by tonight after work and give him some cash to get started and right now I'm wondering if I should tell him to skip the brakes all together (I do these myself) to save me a few bucks. I think he said the pads are $30 per set so that $90 + $22 labor. Then again I may as well just have him knock them out real quick and save me the bother.

So after 1.5 days this is what the mechanic found wrong with my bike.

[ZX7Project]

Originally Posted by lubetek

So I just got off the phone with the mechanic. He tells me that my carbs need to be cleaned and rebuilt. That some seals on the carbs are leaking, jets clogged etc...

He then goes on to say my valves need to be cleaned and adjusted and that he thinks the bikes been ran hard over the years (which it has been) and that he could tell it sat for a few years.

Services required and recommended:

front and rear brake pad replacement
valve cleaning and adjustment
carb cleaning and rebuild
replacement of left clip on (I asked him to do this and supplied the parts needed)

Total cost: $1150.00 (He stated his estimate went a bit high to cover extra parts)

Damn that was unexpected.

I have to swing by tonight after work and give him some cash to get started and right now I'm wondering if I should tell him to skip the brakes all together (I do these myself) to save me a few bucks. I think he said the pads are $30 per set so that $90 + $22 labor. Then again I may as well just have him knock them out real quick and save me the bother.

So after 1.5 days this is what the mechanic found wrong with my bike.

I smell some BullS**T

Come on, Valves dirty. Something doesnt sound right, Just tell him to do the carbs for now And ride it, Take it somewhere else to have it checked out.

Sounds like you are being ripped out the AHole as Hard as imaginable.

[lubetek]

Well as much as I want to agree with you; I know for a fact that my valves need adjustment. I forget how often it should be done per Kawasaki but its actually quite often if I remember correctly and I bought the bike new in 2003 and since then put 26,000 miles on her. I have never had them adjusted and I can hear them tapping away when the bike is started up. Once the engine warms up a tad the noise goes away but obviously the valves are out of wack. I've known this for a long time but the dealer wanted major cash to clean and adjust so I ignored the issue for a long time.

I'm sure the mechanic started my bike up and heard the valves tapping and then knowing it sat for 3 years he knew it was needed.

I did think that maybe I should tell him to hold off on the valves anyway just to save some money but in the end I know its needed so its better to do it now while the bike is all apart.

I called the dealer last night and asked them how much to clean/adjust my valves, & clean and rebuild my carbs. He looked it up and told me $600 for the valves and $320 to clean the carbs. Rebuilding the carbs would be anywhere from $5 to $150 per carb depending on whats needed (o-rings, diaphragm, floats etc). So with the Kawasaki
dealer I'm looking at $920 right off the bat not including parts and tax. I can see this going over $1150 easily and the dealer isn't replacing my brakes, and fixing my handlebar either.

So I think my mechanic is being pretty fair price wise. Once the work is done I will be provided and itemized receipt that I can better judge the costs by parts used.

[ZX7Project]

Its not too hard to pull the bike apart to do the valves.

Fuel tank, Air cleaner and bam.

Still that sounds a bit normal. I have a Big feeling i know what it is, And you could check it. My project bike has 48K on the ODO. It could be as simple as the Upper cam chain guide is warn out. While my engine is dropped from the frame, I pulled the cover to check the plauged Guide, and To my suprise, It is torn to shreds.

Only 2 little 1/4 inch pieces of rubber left of it. When I get the motor back on the frame, I will be dropping the pan to remove any other chunks of the rubber and any bits from the Sump Pickup screen. That little guide is 13.95 from kawasaki.

[lubetek]

Wow. Well one thing is for sure....if the bike still makes noise when I get it back then you bet yer ass I'll be making them fix it. I'm also sure that when they open it up to clean/adjust that if they see the guide is worn that they will add it to my parts needed list and replace it. He did estimate high to cover any extra parts required.

In the end I have to leave it to the mechanic to do the work required and be fair. I'm kinda at his mercy considering I don't have the tools, garage, or know how to do this stuff myself. Sure I can buy the tools and learn how to do it but that takes time that I don't have. My wife keeps me pretty busy lol.

[ZX7Project]

Originally Posted by lubetek

Wow. Well one thing is for sure....if the bike still makes noise when I get it back then you bet yer ass I'll be making them fix it. I'm also sure that when they open it up to clean/adjust that if they see the guide is worn that they will add it to my parts needed list and replace it. He did estimate high to cover any extra parts required.

In the end I have to leave it to the mechanic to do the work required and be fair. I'm kinda at his mercy considering I don't have the tools, garage, or know how to do this stuff myself. Sure I can buy the tools and learn how to do it but that takes time that I don't have. My wife keeps me pretty busy lol.

It really does not take many tools to take the cylinder head cover off. I believe just a 8 or 10 MM socket and an Allen wrench.

My girlfriend is understanding about me and my bike, Its hard to tell what I love more, The bike or her.. Lol take a look at my topic thats about to pop up.

[suprajztwenty]

i have the same problem...well sorta in a way. difficult to start/idle when cold but when warm runs good. after temp is normal- throttle response is very slow and almost seems to bog down...but before the temp gets up it seems to run well(keep in mind i live in tx) no mods on the bike, all stock. the bike sat for 2years and ive cleaned the carbs a few times (had issues removing the idle set screw cover) ive also pressure washed and parts wash bin'ed the tank a few times to be 100%..along with new fuel filter.

im unsure but im pointing at the fuel pump to my issue, or maybe the relay. i havnt checked voltage yet but if anyone can tell me if its soposed to be 12veven or is the voltage sopposed to alternate durring pressure increases.

also my head is fairly noisy-im sure a valve adj wouldnt hurt but id rather put that off till later-as far as the chain guide, is it possible to inspect or replace it with the motor in frame?

my bike is just a side project and since the season is almost over- ive got all winter to get it running right- so IF pulling the motor IS necesary, is there anything else to help improve running quality/preventative maintenance while i have it out?

hopefully we both have the same issue and your mech's solution could help mine as well, but if not keep us posted either way.

[ZX7Project]

Originally Posted by suprajztwenty