Differences/Similarities between the Concours14 vs ZX14... what are they ?

[Eugenio_SS]

Hi,

I'm new here... Looks like a great place.
A bit about me...
I've been riding bikes for 10+years... my last bike was a VFR800, and was wanting something with more power.
Anyways, driven ZX-12 + Hayabusa and love them.
I'm consider both the ZX-14 and Concours14.
Would just like to have a good list of differences/similarities...

did a search and couldn't find much information.
Apart from the slight fender differences, the windshield, and chain (zx14), are the bikes identical (mecanically speaking ?)
I love both bikes, but also want the bike to handle well.
the concours is more $, but insurance is also much higher on xz14.

Thanks for the info and feedback.
Take care,

[drsmig]

I ride a zx14 and I believe the engines are very similar. Probably a different cam and some internal components in each. The zx14 is of course lighter and more powerful. The C14 will have more room, be more comfortable for most and be a better two up touring machine. I tour regularly on the ZX14. With the right mods it can make a great sport touring machine for some. If touring is their thing most would probably go with the C14 because of the shaft drive, hard bags and the more relaxed riding position. I wouldn't mind having both in the garage. ZX14 equals SPORT-touring, C14 equals
sport-TOURING. The choice is yours.

[Eugenio_SS]

thx.
As mentionned, my last bike was a VFR, so regardless of which route, I think it'll be an improvement in every field vs the VFR.

Heck I was even considering getting a CBR1000 or R1 for a fun bike, but figured I'd be better off w a ZX14 for a bit more confort and power + longer wheelbase, making it less of a wheelie machine (hate wheelies)... so I would enjoy sporty + long rides.

The reason for the question is that there is a 4x $-diff in insurance on the C14 vs ZX14 and that prompted me to ask about the differences... If the C14 is for all intents and purposes, the same bike, then screw it, get the C14, remove the hard-bags and go have fun... but if the bike is way less powerfull, not so good @ handling and much heavier, I'm not interested.

I just don't know and haven't driven either one of the bikes.
I've driven the ZX12 and Hayabusa... how would the C14 and ZX14 compare to any of those ?
I loved the look and confort of the ZX12... the way I saw it, was as heavy as teh VFR, more power, similar handling characteristics.

As long as I don't lose fun factor, I don't care which route i take.
My wife likes to go on rides... but very short ones... ideally within 100miles.
I've done days of 1200+ miles on the VFR and loved it... 1st season w/ the bike, I did 45,000+km (~30,000 miles) and I tend to avoid highways (boring) unless i'm more of in a hurry to get to a certain destination... I always take the twisty roads to a destination.

Thanks for the feedback ;)

[TronZX-14]

The engines are pretty much the same. The Concourse is shaft driven however. For a sport tourer, it is at the top of the food chain. I rode with one at the Tail of the Dragon, and let me tell you, with someone that knows what he is doing, that machine handles very much like a lighter sport bike. It has a couple of things that make it unique and a lot of fun. It has an electronic windshield that you can adjust "in flight." You can also tweek the suspension from the console. The computer shows you everything that the ZX14 shows you, except that it also gives you a constant tire pressure readout. The saddle bags are extremely easy to remove, it only takes a turn of the key and a second or two. Also it has the electronic Key Pass device...pretty cool. All in all, it just depends on what you want and what you are willing to give up. I have a ZX-14, my dad has the C-14. Believe me, the C-14 has a WHOLE LOT OF BITE.

[Eugenio_SS]

basically, you're saying that acceleration will be very similar, and difference not so noticeable on the street ? I'm not thinking on tracking the bike... although I've done my share of track time in the days.
Are you also saying that handling is very close to the ZX14 ?
Main use of the bike will be on the street... and I don't believe on racing on the street... yet i still want to be able to go through some nice twisty roads and have fun... is the weight also similar, without the bags ?

I tried looking for comparisons on zx14 vs c14, and can't find any.

[Eugenio_SS]

wishing that Kawasaki had some kind of test-drive program where both bikes are present.

[Eugenio_SS]

I just found out that the C14 is roughly 150ish hp, and the ZX14 is in the 180ish hp.
Is it only the drivetrain that causes so much loss ? or they are talking of engine power instead of power @ the wheels.
If it's engine power, I'm assuming the engine block is the same, and as mentionned, different cam is used. So I would tend to assume that the power curve was chosen to sacrifice higher end, while maximizing more on the lower end TQ... is it the case ?

Sorry for all the questions... i just don't know the answers ;)

[brunobp]

You may want to try and go to one of the Cycle World International BIke shows that are going on in most of the major cities over the next few months. You can see both bikes and talk to the factory reps. If you are not in a hurry, you may want to wait to get to some of the shows where they have test rides. Over the Summer Kawasaki had several test rides set up where you could sign up in advance to take out many of their different bikes on a group ride. I found out about it too late, but would have loved to do that before buying my ZX14. I love the bike, but a nice long test ride would have been nice. If not, find a dealer that will let you ride them. There are some out there. JMO

[drsmig]

Send a pm to Fastbear on here. He has both bikes and will be able to answer any questions about comparisons or bike specific things you might like to know.

[madd]

the concour has a 10,7,1 compression ratio,which lowers hp. the front rake isnt as low as a zx.torque is lower too. the handlebars is set higher than a zx. guess the concour would be better for cross country,the zx is more fun on shorter rides. even though a zx has all that power and torque it is still the most smooth riding bike ive ever been on.add a couple of bags and you have a good cross country bike as well.

[scavenger_9]

you got that right man...

[Eugenio_SS]

well it looks like the zx14 it is.
The C14 seem to remove alot of the fun factor, while adding stuff I don't need/want.
I've driven zx12, busa and love them.
Heck I was even thinking on going w/ the 1liter bikes... had done rides of 1k+ miles on a day on a CBR929 and was confortable (on my standards).
My VFR was very confortable, but lacked some fun factor (not too agile, a bit heavy for its size, not enough power).

Thanks for all your feedback.
For some reason, I thought the C14 was mecanically the same as the zx14 with just a facelift + higher handlebars + confier seats... since it sacrifices a lot more, its interests on my eyes are long gone.... too much of a touring bike for me.

[jonathan]

The one big difference between the 2 engines is that the ZX-14 is tuned for a higher HP but in a narrower band. The C14 has grunt available pretty much at any rpm, so it is a lot more forgiving, and will let you accelerate from a cruise withour having to shift down.

[Flying Kaw]

Eugenio

Jonathan is right generally speaking. The C14 doesn't make as much peak power...but more power across a wide range.

More specifically:

The cams of the ZX are much hotter for top end (more duration) place the power band farther up the rev range. The C14 is cammed more for grunt and stump pulling.

The ZX has much higher compression. The C14 CR is 10.7:1.

The engines are very similar...same block...heads...etc. The Fuel Injectors on the ZX are larger as are the throttle bodies (44mm vs 40 I believe). Smaller TB = higher velocity and thus more grunt/torque.

The trick deal on the C14 is the VVT. The intake cam is advanced significantly in the lower rev range. As the engine revs up the intake timing is retarded (on the fly!) allowing the engine to spin up for top end performance similar to a ZX14 ( just not as much).

Here's where the biggest difference in performance occurs...from about 2000 to 3000 rpm. I've seen several ZX14 dyno runs with the flies out, exhaust, and fuel remapped. They see a big jump in torque ...about 15 to 20 ft-lbs ...around 3500 rpm

The C14 has almost identical results except 1000 rpms LOWER. When I pulled the flies on my C14, added a slip-on and custom mapped the fuel with a PC3 I gain 20+ ft-lbs of torque at 2500 rpms. Stock the bike was making 60 ft-lbs. After the mods it jumped to 80+...at 2500 rpms. That is a train load of torque for any inline four at 2500 rpm.

[scavenger_9]

damn... if your claims are true, then that's one hell of a torque figure for a tourer... i'm ithing in getting one myself...

[Eugenio_SS]

Engines I understand and know them... especially V8's ;)
Anyways, from my understanding, with the lower compression ratio and the different cam properties, I thought that from the dyno graphs I was able to find that the C14 torque was not higher than the ZX14 torque.... let me find some of those pics/pulls and post (basing from memory)... can't see lots of the info from work now.

Heck, my SS engine was chosen based on the fact that I wanted a flater tq monster, while sacrificing hp... and I can still lift the front of the 4300lbs beast @ decent speeds... Plus I tend to road race more than anything w/ the car (not much into drag)
My bike in stock configuration still has to be close to the cars acceleration... don't want to feel like everytime I get on the bike to say: "Damm this thing doesn't move"... I know the Accord feels like it's in Neutral everytime i take it out... lol

What would be great to see is how the C14 would react to the turbo setup vs the zx14, since it has lower compression ratio, allowing for more boost... now that would be quite a beast.

[Eugenio_SS]

here is a graph of a C14 stock vs slip-on:


From my recollection, upto 6k rpm, they were very identical #s, if you were to not have the dip on the the zx14... but from my understanding, the 2008 zx14 resolved that issue on recovering the tq in the lower end, improving the tq throughout the range... so I don't see it being a tq monster vs the zx14, especially given the weight disadvantage... I don't see it more that @ the most 5 lb-ft difference.
Argumentatively speaking, we could assume that there is a 10% more tq on the C14 vs ZX14, but the extra weight will not give any advantage to the c14 in straight line acceleration, even less in cornering.

[Eugenio_SS]

another point that would be great to know on the C14 is how rich the C14 engine comes on average from the manufacturer... as you all know, the ZX14 comes pretty rich and there is plenty of room to get more power out of the engine in stock configuration... only a nice dyno graph of a stock C14 w/ A/F would give us that information... anyone has one handy ?

[Flying Kaw]

I found this old thread and thought I'd post this. This is the dyno run after I changed from a slip-on to a dual AreaP. I lost a little bit of torque on bottom but gained some peak and some peak HP.

Anyway you can see the torque gain from pulling the flies, a PC3 and exhaust. Pulling the flies on either of these bikes (ZX or ZG) results in huge bottom end gains of grunt!



Lastly...the primary difference in HP between these two beasts is the frictional losses in the shaft system. ANY shaft driven bike will lose about 15 to 18% at the rear wheel over it;s chain driven counterpart. Considering this my Concours14...if chain driven ...would likely have put down about 170 to 175 hp at the rear wheel. But personally speaking I wouldn't give up my shaft for any amount of horsepower. Would you?

[185EZ]

Not a technical reply. The Concours is an awesome machine. My wife and I both looked at it and said no way. No disrespect for it in any way. Just aren't ready for the touring bike. Maybe it was just the image thing of owning a zx14. It was love at 1st sight when we saw it. We even bought the 07 candy plasma blue since they didn't offer the color for 08. Saved a couple grand, too. The 14 is a real head turner.
It's comfortable for short or long trips. If there isn't a casino or a jacuzzi within 200 miles, that's long.:) I did add the heli bars and extra foot pegs for my wife.
It's dangerously smooth. I usually get the tap on the shoulder about 100mph. I went 130 one time and asked why I didn't get the tap and she thought we were only doing 90.
If you guys ask why I took my wife that fast, it was unintentional. When you're cruising almost 80 and pass a couple cars, the acceleration is spectacular. It caught me by surprise, too.
I guess they fixed the low end power problem on the 08. I would have to drive the 08 to see the differance. It's not bad ('07) for around town driving. Doesn't bother me. Once you hit 6 grand, you better be holding on. It's alot o fun!
You'll be happy either way, eugino ss.