Lets get this flies in/out issue settled once and for all. : Kawasaki ZX Forums: Kawasaki Ninja Forum

inkman · 06-11-2008, 05:36 PM

Okay. first of all, taking the flies out is the equivalent of removing an obstruction in your intake. The only mechanical/electrical connection is the shaft they are mounted on is rotated, opening them at, I guess, 6000 rpm. Below that, the intake is choked. The only way to understand this is to take them out and see firsthand the difference. I have an '06 K14. With a pcIII already installed when I got the bike, I added an ATRE. Some difference, but not nearly what I had hoped for. then I pulled the flies. That was the one I was looking for. Before, I couldn't get the stupid thing to wheelie. I am not joe wheelie, but I know how to do it. I couldn't figure out what the issue was. Pulling the flies allows it that down low pull it was missing before. I read people saying how they don't want it to be too powerful. Baloney. Get a 600 then. If you have this bike, you are obviously looking for big power. Learn to use it.

drunkonspeed · 06-11-2008, 07:36 PM

right after I have $300 to spend on a PCIII ... fuck and I thought (hoped) I could just plug my laptop into the bike's brain once I got a FI motorcycle!

So what's the equivalent of the "pre-flies" bike once you take them out? Taking off in third gear?

I miss my low end torque!

LowCel · 06-12-2008, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunkonspeed

right after I have $300 to spend on a PCIII ... fuck and I thought (hoped) I could just plug my laptop into the bike's brain once I got a FI motorcycle!

Indysuperbikes has them for $258. Best price I've been able to find.

LOWFLYER · 06-12-2008, 07:05 AM

I've also seen as low as $269 shipped on ebay......

06red14 · 06-12-2008, 08:55 AM

You can take them out without having the PC it will run lean in 3K RPM range. if you find the original flies out guide you'll see a couple guys say they've ran it like this without any issues

RedneckHillbilly · 06-12-2008, 06:57 PM

take em out now ! just dont poke around at 3500 for extended periods, keep the rpms at 4 grand or above till you get your PCIII...and enjoy !

Vader_ZX14 · 06-12-2008, 07:39 PM

Hit the power commander website to find the flies only map.

take flies out - Free

PC III - 250.00

Save the engine - Priceless

Save the money - take out the flies, slip ons or full exhaust, add a PC III, @ the same time and you will be happier & safer

drunkonspeed · 06-12-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 06red14

You can take them out without having the PC it will run lean in 3K RPM range. if you find the original flies out guide you'll see a couple guys say they've ran it like this without any issues

Soooo what if we live in Denver @ 5280ft? Since we already have less air here, and if the bike runs rich, then we remove the flies and it runs .... COMPLETELY OPTIMAL??

Haha please someone chime in on this! I'm itching to pull 'em!

BlueBomber14 · 06-12-2008, 10:08 PM

Your bike should not be running rich just becuase your at a higher altitude the computer in conjuction with the mass air meter and other sensors like the o2 sensors calculate the mixture according to those vaiables all the time, less air less fuel, more air more fuel... etc. the flies out trick as inkman and many threads before this one have stated is a restriction, a vacum forms between the primary and secondary flies becuse the primary flies open faster than the secondaries and subsequently the amount of air that reaches each cylinder is restricted also the fuel is reduced by the computer. As you approach the magic 6 grand range the secondaries begin to open and allow more air into the engine and the computer allows more feul as well and the cycle continues until you get scared shitless and release the throttle. The main goal was to make the bike "more rideable" that's Kawasaki speak for "we don't think most people can handle this much low end power let's make the low end a little pussier by throwing a metal restricter plate in the air path"

I think on the other hand it gave them along with the detuning of the computer a few very easily reversable restrictions that they could use to make the next years model faster without reengineering anything so in other words they covered there asses and prebuilt there new found next year model speed all in one fell swoop. And made me spend more of my hard earned money making my newly engineered highly sophisticated ,highly expensive, and technologically advanced motorcycle go as fast it should go out of the box

......bastards.......

So to conclude I as a few other insiteful folks here have said "PULL THEM AND GO HAVE SOME FREAKIN FUN ON THAT BEAST!! .....that is unless your.............................................. ................. chicken???????

RedneckHillbilly · 06-13-2008, 05:25 AM

and the cycle continues until you get scared shitless and release the throttle.

LMAO

great description

mcmmotorsports · 06-13-2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueBomber14

The main goal was to make the bike "more rideable" that's Kawasaki speak for "we don't think most people can handle this much low end power let's make the low end a little pussier by throwing a metal restricter plate in the air path"

Negative....this was done so that the hardcore Busa fans upon getting on a 14 could brag to all their friends at how slow it is and then they go to the track, find a 14 to tease, put some money on the line, then unbeknownst to them, the 14 owner at the track...unlike the puss on the street they met earlier, had pulled the flies and proceeds to whoop their ass and take their Happy Meal money.

THAT is why Kawi did it.

drunkonspeed · 06-13-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueBomber14

Your bike should not be running rich just becuase your at a higher altitude the computer in conjuction with the mass air meter and other sensors like the o2 sensors calculate the mixture according to those vaiables all the time, less air less fuel, more air more fuel... etc. the flies out trick as inkman and many threads before this one have stated is a restriction, a vacum forms between the primary and secondary flies becuse the primary flies open faster than the secondaries and subsequently the amount of air that reaches each cylinder is restricted also the fuel is reduced by the computer. As you approach the magic 6 grand range the secondaries begin to open and allow more air into the engine and the computer allows more feul as well and the cycle continues until you get scared shitless and release the throttle. The main goal was to make the bike "more rideable" that's Kawasaki speak for "we don't think most people can handle this much low end power let's make the low end a little pussier by throwing a metal restricter plate in the air path"

I think on the other hand it gave them along with the detuning of the computer a few very easily reversable restrictions that they could use to make the next years model faster without reengineering anything so in other words they covered there asses and prebuilt there new found next year model speed all in one fell swoop. And made me spend more of my hard earned money making my newly engineered highly sophisticated ,highly expensive, and technologically advanced motorcycle go as fast it should go out of the box

......bastards.......

So to conclude I as a few other insiteful folks here have said "PULL THEM AND GO HAVE SOME FREAKIN FUN ON THAT BEAST!! .....that is unless your.............................................. ................. chicken???????

Sorry for my foolishness on FI issues, as this is my first FI bike.

So if the bike's computer readjusts for changing conditions, why is a power commander recommended when you mod a FI bike? Does the computer just dynamically create new maps for itself w/o a PowCom?

Anyone have a readup on this somewhere? I'm getting my info from http://www.bikeland.org/story.php?storyID=24810 which says it will run "dangerously lean" as 3-4K rpm's ... so obviously i'm hesitant but would love for someone to prove me wrong so I can pull 'em! :D

FI NEWB

06red14 · 06-13-2008, 11:58 AM

the ecu won't remap it self. the power commander simply corrects and optimizes the air/fuel ratio. go to brocks performance and look at the low end gain diary you'll see air/fuel ratios with the flys out and no PC and a corrected one with a PC

inkman · 06-13-2008, 07:47 PM

I'm getting my info from http://www.bikeland.org/story.php? storyID=24810 which says it will run "dangerously lean" as 3-4K rpm's ... so obviously i'm hesitant but would love for someone to prove me wrong so I can pull 'em! :D

If you go back and reread that story, you will see the author has since added a correction.

drunkonspeed · 06-13-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkman

I'm getting my info from http://www.bikeland.org/story.php? storyID=24810 which says it will run "dangerously lean" as 3-4K rpm's ... so obviously i'm hesitant but would love for someone to prove me wrong so I can pull 'em! :D

If you go back and reread that story, you will see the author has since added a correction.

"Further reports from some of our street riders (using our street maps) have confirmed my own findings that the fuel mileage did not suffer as a result of removing the secondaries; in fact, some actually reported an INCREASE in miles per gallon! This does correspond somewhat to my dyno results because, yet again, the 14 is so powerful that low RPM rides at moderate throttle openings do not occur much during normal use. This allows the bike to function at an area of the factory mapping which does not require a significant amount of additional fuel with the flies out compared to having the flies installed. "

I think I am understanding this correctly, that the lean area isn't going to really affect the bike because of how much power this thing has/gearing/rev's. So earlier today I called two different local tuners here about taking the flies out w/o adding a PC3. (I'm @ 5280ft, just fyi) and one said you'll get a flat spot @ 5000rpm and the other really didn't give me a reason, he just recommended the PC3.

Who's got 'em done w/ no PC3 & stock everything else? Anyone at altitude? How's it run? (if that makes a difference)

RedneckHillbilly · 06-13-2008, 08:30 PM

I have no pc...flies out....but now it appears my frame might be over torqued

drunkonspeed · 06-14-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedneckHillbilly

I have no pc...flies out....but now it appears my frame might be over torqued

Any backfiring or flat spots?

RedneckHillbilly · 06-14-2008, 04:18 AM

I just got my slip ons and they will backfire on decel but man what a difference...its like uncorking the Mississippi...as far as flat spots the 3500 rpm is not as noticeable as it was..

mcmmotorsports · 06-14-2008, 02:07 PM

After 100+ miles of hard riding today....I have come to the conclusion that these flies have got to come out.. If I would not have known about them, I would have claimed this was the most "Pigish" bike I have ever ridden and probably would have traded it in. I can't wait to pull them.

drunkonspeed · 06-14-2008, 09:15 PM

I might as well just find out for myself - just pulled 'em, gotta go ride!!

Here's how I did it:

1) Hot engine
2) #2 Phillips 6'' Length
3) Heated the tip of the phillips w/ lighter for a few seconds (though maybe not even necessary w/ the heat of the engine)
4) Unbolt the fuel tank and just rest it to the side, one side at a time.

Oh, a magnetized screwdriver and needle-nose pliers would have made it more stress free!

Pic: