New (to me) ZX12R... issues - ZX Forums
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-18-2015, 04:43 AM Thread Starter
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New (to me) ZX12R... issues

Well, I guess my 3rd Kawasaki makes me a devotee.I just love these big Kaws.

So, I just picked up a ZX12r, with issues. I am hoping you guys might be able to give me some advice. Here's the deal, 2002, 19k miles, looks very well taken care of. I got the bike cheap. The PO stated it has possible engine issues.

I will spare you all the detail, but basically he got an oil light. Pulled over, shut down and took the bike home via trailer. He said the engine was making some noises. Not a knock but not the ordinary smooth running sound. Said it seemed to be coming from the top end, but he was not sure. He says he dropped the pan, and found no metal whatsoever, and checked the filter with the same results.

So, I have taken the plastics off and here is what I found.

-Mild oil leak from valve cover gasket. This seems normal for the 12r
-Big hit on the oil pan/nut (it is a low bike and there's a lowering link in back). Couple of cooling fins in front of the nut removed, nut slightly bent (speed bump?)
-Mild leak from pan (possibly from PO dropping it and not replacing gasket?)
-Headers not attached properly (have to remove these to drop the pan, PO didn't tighten everything back?)

I removed the oil to double check and found no metal (except a couple of threads from around the bent nut, I am sure the are from the pan threading).

After filtering and replacing the oil, I started the bike and ran it from maybe 8 -10 seconds. Honestly, it seemed normal to me (other than like it had not run in a while), and sounded a lot like my GPZ1100e. The idle was very rough, but since the headers are not on right (I can hear it firing out the front), I think that probably has something to do with it. BUT, there was nothing that was totally obvious to me that sounded wrong. The oil light stayed on the whole time.

I am just wondering where to go next? Shall I inspect the oil pump? I want to run the bike, but I also do not want to damage anything. If the pan and filter and pump are clean, is it okay to run?

Thanks for any advice.
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-18-2015, 05:44 AM
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Check that the oil pressure wire has not shorted to earth, its left hand side under the stator cover.
If the wire checks out ok,then when ever he hit the speed bump the impact may of dislodged the oil pump pick up and so its not sucking the oil up, or damaged the pump shaft, or pressure release valve, but I'm only guessing here, but you don't want to be riding it till its sorted.

If its a zx12 B model then you'll find the information under section 7 of the service manual, its not a big section but has all the information you'll need.

Last edited by yorkie; 05-18-2015 at 05:46 AM.
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-18-2015, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I am too frightened to run it. I wish I could keep it running for a while, to try and track down the noise, but I fear running the engine may damage it. SO, that's out.

I am in the process of stripping everything off so I can check the inside of the valve cover (hopefully this will let me know if it is the cam timing chain). If I see nothing there, I will move down. Seems like if a bearing went, there would be more metal in the pan.

I saw a post about pushing the bike in 6th gear, but it didn't really say what I should be looking for. Resistance? Noise?

Thanks for any info.
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-18-2015, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidmarkart View Post
Yeah, I am too frightened to run it. I wish I could keep it running for a while, to try and track down the noise, but I fear running the engine may damage it. SO, that's out.

I am in the process of stripping everything off so I can check the inside of the valve cover (hopefully this will let me know if it is the cam timing chain). If I see nothing there, I will move down. Seems like if a bearing went, there would be more metal in the pan.

I saw a post about pushing the bike in 6th gear, but it didn't really say what I should be looking for. Resistance? Noise?

Thanks for any info.
I dont have any experience with that model but is there a port you could tap into and put a temp mechanical oil pressure gauge on the bike? If so you could test the oil pressure just by spinning the motor. If its good then start the bitch up. If that checks out ok then move on to finding the other reason that lite stays on.
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-18-2015, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Well, this sounds not so good. This is a video of the noise happening...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJB_roKqPPo

Cam chain breaking?
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-19-2015, 09:20 AM
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That noise could be due to no oil getting on the cam chain or valve buckets, hopefully nothing worse.

I would definitely have the sump off and be checking out the oil pump system before trying to run it again.

Do you have a workshop manual for it?
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-19-2015, 11:16 AM
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The motor in a 12 is a lot like a 14. The 14's cam chain tensioner is activated by oil pressure. That vid sounds like the cam chain being loose. Combine that with the oil pressure lite being on and I think the problem is related. I dont think the top or bottom end is without oil pressure cuz in the vid from when the lite came on it ran longer than I would think before the motor would have seized up or started loosing rpms..

Take a look at the cam chain tension-er.
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-19-2015, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks all...

Yeah, that is what I was thinking too. The oil light seems to start a few seconds before the noise. Maybe the pump went? Then you hear the cam chain (or that is what it sounds like) noise. The Op seems to go right to the cam chain area when he is looking for the source of the noise.

The pan has already been off and was clean. There doesn't really seem to be anything in the oil either, I drained and changed it. Guess I will have a look at the oil pump and the top end and see if I can see anything from there.

I do not have a manual yet, but I do plan on purchasing one today for download. I just want to confirm "A" or "B" model before I buy.
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-19-2015, 02:21 PM
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There are a few on the net for download, I just can't think of one at the moment. But PM me your email and I'll send you one. the file is about 12 to 13 megs PDF so your email address will want to be able to handle that amount or you'll not get it.
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-19-2015, 02:24 PM
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The engine itself didn't sound bad. If the oil pump checks out OK, I would remove the clutch cover and see if anything's rattling around in there. Camchain noise usually manifests itself at cold idle first. And then it's more continual until things warm up.

It may be a pig, but it's a pig with a rocket in it's ass!
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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-19-2015, 07:00 PM
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The oil pump drive gear is behind the clutch basket and sits on the same shaft as the basket. If the basket had been removed for any reason, the drive gear comes off with it. It can only go on one way to drive the oil pump. If it's reversed or wasn't mated properly upon re-assembly the oil pump does not drive and bad things happen. I would look at that first and move on from there.

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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-20-2015, 01:28 AM
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PDF Manual sent, 13.6 megs.
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-20-2015, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again guys. The manual came through, it looks VERY useful.

The clutch basket area sounds like a good place to look, if the pump came apart there should be some evidence there.
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-20-2015, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidmarkart View Post
Thanks again guys. The manual came through, it looks VERY useful.

The clutch basket area sounds like a good place to look, if the pump came apart there should be some evidence there.
If the pump died the evidence would be in the oil pan. All you can see in the clutch area is the oil pump drive gear.

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http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-7r...r-real-m1.html

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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-21-2015, 04:37 AM Thread Starter
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Odd... the pan was very clean. There was next to nothing there, the only thing I found was some threads from the pan threading that had come lose from the hit to the nut.

Hopefully I get to do some work this weekend.
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-21-2015, 09:34 AM
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Skidmarkart look forward to reading you progress, is Crashtech still around ? ,read some of his Sept 2010 comments on Kwaka colours.
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-24-2015, 11:49 AM
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Hey skid I gave / guessed some bad info. Those bikes have a manual cam chain tensioner.

Its on the right side of the motor in the head. A friend of mine has a 12. I saw him today and asked about it. You should be able to get to it without taking any fairings off. if you can take it off and its not under pressure thats what that sound is.
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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-27-2015, 04:20 PM
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when doing a oil change on these you need to prime the filter, also pull the cam chain tensioner and re-install, could be as simple as that
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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-29-2015, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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I did try both of those... well I didn't replace the tensioner, but tried the "reset" and it didn't seem to work. Took it to my mechanic yesterday, hopefully I can update soon. Or, better yet, post something about the performance of this beast. ;)
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-29-2015, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidmarkart View Post
I did try both of those... well I didn't replace the tension er, but tried the "reset" and it didn't seem to work. Took it to my mechanic yesterday, hopefully I can update soon. Or, better yet, post something about the performance of this beast. ;)
If you remove the 10 mm hex head bolt you should be able to insert a flat blade screwdriver in to the slot and start turning the screwdriver until it stops.

This should draw the head of tension er inward / shorter. while not letting screwdriver spin re install CCT. once in place remove screwdriver and it should spin / ratchet out and take up all the slack of CC.
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