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Old 06-19-2010, 12:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Trick to bleeding 6 piston Tokico calipers?

I've done the six pot caliper swap, but the trouble is I can't seem to bleed all the air out of the system. It's either that, or brake feel is very soft when the stock master cylinder is combined with the new brakes. The lever doesn't go all the way back to the bar, but it still seems like it's not as firm as it should be. Does anyone have any insights?
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Old 06-19-2010, 01:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I didn't really have any issues with mine. Used a vacuum bleeder and just drew in new fluid. Make sure to bleed from the side toward the wheel. Also bleed the left hand caliper first.
Hope you have success!
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Old 06-19-2010, 02:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedKestrel View Post
I've done the six pot caliper swap, but the trouble is I can't seem to bleed all the air out of the system. It's either that, or brake feel is very soft when the stock master cylinder is combined with the new brakes. The lever doesn't go all the way back to the bar, but it still seems like it's not as firm as it should be. Does anyone have any insights?
It may have to do with the increased internal volume as compared to the stock calipers. I bled the living shit out of mine and they still feel like there's a bit of excess lever travel. They don't seem to pump up with multiple pulls like they would if there were air in the lines.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
It may have to do with the increased internal volume as compared to the stock calipers. I bled the living shit out of mine and they still feel like there's a bit of excess lever travel. They don't seem to pump up with multiple pulls like they would if there were air in the lines.

Not So
As example zx9r and zx12r etc etc all with 6 pots
their master cylinder bores and ALL the guts of the masters
are IDENTICAL to that in all zx11's and your zzr1200
P/N 43020-1054

Last edited by rsr; 06-19-2010 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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You defiantly need a vacuum bleeder!!!!! You can pick one up for about 25 bucks. It took me a while to get mine bled out nice but be patient and dont forget to pop the master cyl after you think you are done...rsr is correct the master cyl is the same as it was on my zx12R that had the same calipers.
On another note..check your caliper spacers and make sure they are the same in shoulder thickness. They all need to be 2.0mm. If not you can get some weird feel at the lever from them being mounted crooked.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by crashtech View Post
You defiantly need a vacuum bleeder!!!!! You can pick one up for about 25 bucks. It took me a while to get mine bled out nice but be patient and dont forget to pop the master cyl after you think you are done...rsr is correct the master cyl is the same as it was on my zx12R that had the same calipers.
On another note..check your caliper spacers and make sure they are the same in shoulder thickness. They all need to be 2.0mm. If not you can get some weird feel at the lever from them being mounted crooked.
Maybe that's the issue; mine are mounted without spacers.
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Maybe that's the issue; mine are mounted without spacers.
They're not needed on a ZZR1200; only on ZX11.
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Back to square one......
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Oh and ideal thickness of the built-in flange for offsetting 6P calipers is 1˝ mm. 2.0 mm will also work but 1˝ mm is perfect center.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Oh and ideal thickness of the built-in flange for offsetting 6P calipers is 1˝ mm. 2.0 mm will also work but 1˝ mm is perfect center.
Claude I love your advise and respect your opinion but I call total BULLSHIT!!!! I just went through 2 years of hard ache and a ton of money replacing parts because my spacers measured from 1.44 to 2.04 and did NOT ride in the center and warped rotors. The new spacers I have that are all 2.0 put the calipers "dead-nuts" on the center line. The others were NOT on the center line but told they would "work" when I asked. The 1.5's will work but not perfect and cause stress on the system. I only can attest to my bike that is an 01. I knew this would start something. The people I now trust have directed me and walked me through the whole measurement process to help me diagnose the problem and they were correct and "dead-nuts" on it. I don't know where the 1.5 thing came from but have 2 years in trying to sort it out. I just did the work and can hold witness to the fact that the 2.0 fit my bike the best.

Bottom line...check them if you have them and make sure they are at least equal (or at least within .003 of an inch) and ride close to center of caliper. Go ahead and check......I did...... I did not like what I found though....I guess close is fine but not for the way I ride.
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I simply measured a set of OEM 11 calipers and a set of OEM GSXR1000 calipers. The difference in amount of offset between the two is 1˝ mm. This is between the surface that touch the for and the center of the opening where the disc go into. You can disagree with those facts, but please no need to call BS.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:30 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Talking

Quote:
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I simply measured a set of OEM 11 calipers and a set of OEM GSXR1000 calipers. The difference in amount of offset between the two is 1˝ mm. This is between the surface that touch the for and the center of the opening where the disc go into. You can disagree with those facts, but please no need to call BS.

Claude...Sorry dude my frustration is not ment toward you...Please understand I got over 2 years in trying to find my "brake" issue. You remember some of it from past threads....The spacers were the problem all along. VERY frustrating and costly the issue was....We went way beyond just those simple measurements. I can hold witness they are perfect in caliper center now with the 2.0's.... The measurment Poway told me they needed to be and measurments they walked me through with my caliper and dial indicator confirmed it. I told them to prove it and they did...

Like I said if you and everybody that buys them are happy with the 1.5's and trust that then at least make sure they are all the same or close. Mine were over .5mm apart from each other...OMG!!!! The 1.5's you could feel the caliper pull out to the mount when tightening bolts indicating they needed to be thicker.

Like I said ..... I new I was opening a can of worms.....LOL....I have no regrets though after what I have been through on my brakes...
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Last edited by crashtech; 06-21-2010 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Well ... this should be easy enough to check, and now I'm curious. I'll measure everything up within in a week and report back on what I find. I did notice the sound of pads (or a pad) slapping the rotor today, but I'm pretty sure it did that with the *stock* calipers.
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Well I finally got around to looking at this (I've got my priorities wrong, I know) and I measured difference in offset between the calipers ... and then about half an hour ago I realized I did it wrong. D'oh. I'll double check it tomorrow.

But, I did check the washers that I got with the calipers, and one of them was thicker than the other three by .5mm. This caliper had also been loudly clicking when the brakes were applied; being the first time I'd rebuilt brake calipers, I just figured I'd made a mistake somehow. One quick trip to the hardware store (with vernier caliper in hand) and I had four 2mm washers. Vindication! The pads no longer loudly slap the rotor on the left side and the brakes work much better now (before they were a little scary).

I'm not posting this up to slam anybody, I'm still glad for the hardware I got at a fair price. I would consider this more a cautionary tale, to remind people to double check fitment on any custom hardware they're putting on their bike!
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TwistedKestrel View Post
Well I finally got around to looking at this (I've got my priorities wrong, I know) and I measured difference in offset between the calipers ... and then about half an hour ago I realized I did it wrong. D'oh. I'll double check it tomorrow.

But, I did check the washers that I got with the calipers, and one of them was thicker than the other three by .5mm. This caliper had also been loudly clicking when the brakes were applied; being the first time I'd rebuilt brake calipers, I just figured I'd made a mistake somehow. One quick trip to the hardware store (with vernier caliper in hand) and I had four 2mm washers. Vindication! The pads no longer loudly slap the rotor on the left side and the brakes work much better now (before they were a little scary).

I'm not posting this up to slam anybody, I'm still glad for the hardware I got at a fair price. I would consider this more a cautionary tale, to remind people to double check fitment on any custom hardware they're putting on their bike!

Glad it worked for you.....I went through a lot of greif to get mine sorted. I could have probably gone to the extent of cutting the shoulders off and getting some 2mm spacers. I oppted to buy some more spacers made to Poway's specs since they took the time to help me sort the issue.
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