Conventional Vs. Synthetic

[dhowton]

OK I would think that this would have been a beaten topic but didn't see anything when I searched it. Maybe I suck at searching! Thought this might be a useful topic for newer riders. What are everyone's thoughts to be advantages to Synthetic oil changes vs. conventional? Why stick with conventional over switching to synthetic and so forth. Just basically what are everyone's opinions.

The main advantage that I have heard is that you don't have to be as precise with oil changes. That Full Synthetic oil will last longer compared to conventional oil.

[636Sinner]

From what i know, our bikes need the full synth. due to the type of clutch we have in our bikes. Now im not sure how well a semi sythetic would do and i will never run regular dino oil i my bike. If you do and nothing goes wrong then great more power to ya, im just not gonna use it in my bike. But im a believer in that our high performance machines will do better with a full sythetic and from my experience full syth. does last longer between oil changes. I dont mind paying a little more for high quality oil for a high performance machine - it just seems to make sense to me. And with me dogging the shit out of it im hoping that full sythetic will give me better protection/lubrication. Now in my car ive always just used good ol Castrol GTX.
Oh i forgot to add that i use MC specific not just full syth. for cars.

[soc_monki]

Originally Posted by 636Sinner

From what i know, our bikes need the full synth. due to the type of clutch we have in our bikes. Now im not sure how well a semi sythetic would do and i will never run regular dino oil i my bike. If you do and nothing goes wrong then great more power to ya, im just not gonna use it in my bike. But im a believer in that our high performance machines will do better with a full sythetic and from my experience full syth. does last longer between oil changes. I dont mind paying a little more for high quality oil for a high performance machine - it just seems to make sense to me. And with me dogging the shit out of it im hoping that full sythetic will give me better protection/lubrication. Now in my car ive always just used good ol Castrol GTX.
Oh i forgot to add that i use MC specific not just full syth. for cars.

these bikes dont "need" synth at all. a good conventional, or semi-synth is just fine. its really all up to what you want to spend and what you feel comfortable using. they came stock with conventional oil...and as long as the oil doesnt have friction modifiers in it (like many car oils) there wont be a problem with the clutch. having said that...

i use synthetic, because i want to basically LOL there are numerous benefits (more consistent base stocks, less thermal breakdown) and if you get a MC specific oil, hopefully they have additives that will work with the wet clutch better and will stand up to the forces exerted on the oil in the transmission.

is synth a "need" for anything? no. conventional oil is just fine for most people. and it does a fine job as well. but i dont like to worry so i use Mobil 1. Mississippi summers are brutal, and hopefully my choice of oil can take the heat.

[636Sinner]

OK then lets put it this way, my bike deserves it

[soc_monki]

Originally Posted by 636Sinner

OK then lets put it this way, my bike deserves it

as does mine

[CSX4350]

When does everyone change to synthetic, at the first oil change or after a bit of break in? If after break in, how many miles do you wait?

[soc_monki]

i changed over at 14-1500 miles, but honestly its fine to do so after the first service.

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by soc_monki

i changed over at 14-1500 miles, but honestly its fine to do so after the first service.

Most good mechanics or engine builders will tell you the opposite. They do not recommend full syn till at earliest 4000 miles, and their preference is usually 5000-6000.

Here is what the engine builder in hanover recommends.
heavily based mineral oil for first 300. This comes in new engines.
next change use conventional till 1000 miles
next change use semi syn from 1000-4000
then you can start full synthetic if you choose so like I did.
Afterwards change every 5000 miles with full synthetic oil.

I know everyone has their individual opinions, but I choose a popular engine builders two cents. It also is not my bike, so do what you want.

[soc_monki]

Originally Posted by Nightmare

Most good mechanics or engine builders will tell you the opposite. They do not recommend full syn till at earliest 4000 miles, and their preference is usually 5000-6000.

Here is what the engine builder in hanover recommends.
heavily based mineral oil for first 300. This comes in new engines.
next change use conventional till 1000 miles
next change use semi syn from 1000-4000
then you can start full synthetic if you choose so like I did.
Afterwards change every 5000 miles with full synthetic oil.

I know everyone has their individual opinions, but I choose a popular engine builders two cents. It also is not my bike, so do what you want.

and Porsche is one manufacturer who uses Mobil 1 in their engines from day one...also Bentley, Mercedes, Aston Martin, Nissan (in the GT-R), and a lot of GM vehicles (including the Corvette, all Cadillacs, Holdens, etc). if synthetic oil was going to cause a problem in a brand new engine i dont think these guys would use it in their brand new engines. the "using synthetic during the break-in period is bad" myth is unfounded IMO.

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by soc_monki

and Porsche is one manufacturer who uses Mobil 1 in their engines from day one...also Bentley, Mercedes, Aston Martin, Nissan (in the GT-R), and a lot of GM vehicles (including the Corvette, all Cadillacs, Holdens, etc). if synthetic oil was going to cause a problem in a brand new engine i dont think these guys would use it in their brand new engines. the "using synthetic during the break-in period is bad" myth is unfounded IMO.

The main reason it is considered bad for break in period is the fact that it thins up quicker thann standard oil. This is why the oil your engine comes with is heavily mineral based oil. I figured you would disagree. Your also forgetting the difference in our engines compared to.... let's say a corvette. Our clutch is lubricated by the oil the is used in the engine itself, and transmission. Higher rpms then the corvette engine. Why do you think there are so many different addivtives in motorcycle oil then car oil. break in period is also different for our engines anyway. I will just stop here though, cause I see your the kind of person that needs last word.

[soc_monki]

Originally Posted by Nightmare

The main reason it is considered bad for break in period is the fact that it thins up quicker thann standard oil. This is why the oil your engine comes with is heavily mineral based oil. I figured you would disagree. Your also forgetting the difference in our engines compared to.... let's say a corvette. Our clutch is lubricated by the oil the is used in the engine itself, and transmission. Higher rpms then the corvette engine. Why do you think there are so many different addivtives in motorcycle oil then car oil. break in period is also different for our engines anyway. I will just stop here though, cause I see your the kind of person that needs last word.

far from the kind of person who needs the last word. i understand the differences between the engines, theres no mystery in that. i know why there are different additives in car vs. mc oils. but IMO there is still no reason why you cant use synth oil as early as you want. people make the same arguments for cars as they do for bikes..."synth is too slippery and doesnt allow an engine to break in properly" and such. its all myth, and i have seen no evidence other than personal opinions on the matter, which is why i contest the notion.

until i see evidence otherwise, ill continue to contest the myth.

[jah]

personally i dont think it makes such a significant difference in engine reliability to change to synthetic at n e point...

i think its fine starting from teh get go on synthetic..

but my logic is with nightmare, but i wouldnt put too much weight on either impression unless both the bike adn the car were strictly track machines, like nascar or ama motogp...other than that..these are street machines..big deal how you break your machine in as long as you dont rag it...seriously..


also...i can see how synthetic can be more beneficial, and once i get my isth rite, and start doing my own oil changes, thats what daddy going with...synthetic..

[Morgan]

With modern manufacturing, engines are pretty well broken in before they leave the plant. "conventional wisdom" is based on engines built 10, 20, 30 years ago, and has no bearing on modern engines. There's zero reason to not use synthetic oil at your first oil change. But there's no reason to do an oil change at a few hundred miles like there used to be either. Do your first oil change when the manufacturer tells you to do your first oil change.

[Mur386]

Just switched my bike to Amsoil 10/40 mcf synthetic a 2003 zx7r am very pleased, the normal rattles that have been audible since New are reduced by a large amount. Its very odd to cruise through town and not be able to hear the normal noise that I have gotten used to. And it seems to start easier in the morning. Also my bike has always had some amount of metal in the oil during oil change *like metalflake paint*, An Extreme amount when first serviced at 400 miles, it has reduced by a large amount, but still there, will be looking forward to next oil change to see if this has changed. I would prefer to not see any.
Bill

[synoil1]

I switched my bike over Amsoil 10W-40 after the initial break in period. We offer Amsoil's white paper "A study of motorcycle oils" let me know if you would like me to send you a .pdf copy.

[snap-on man]

I have used nothing but amsoil for the last 25 years. I sold a 1990 zx-10 with over a 100,000 miles on it and it still ran great

[185EZ]

Originally Posted by snap-on man

I have used nothing but amsoil for the last 25 years. I sold a 1990 zx-10 with over a 100,000 miles on it and it still ran great

That's awesome but could have done the same with conventional oil.

[dhowton]

Originally Posted by synoil1

I switched my bike over Amsoil 10W-40 after the initial break in period. We offer Amsoil's white paper "A study of motorcycle oils" let me know if you would like me to send you a .pdf copy.

I will take a copy of the study

And snap on man: congrats on having a bike last 100k +

[Hammerhead]

Originally Posted by 185EZ

That's awesome but could have done the same with conventional oil.

True, but it would have taken twice as many oil changes.

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

Originally Posted by 185EZ

That's awesome but could have done the same with conventional oil.

As Hammerhead said.. Twice as many changes at least. Through oil Analysis, I am well over 9000 mile intervals.

Originally Posted by dhowton

I will take a copy of the study

And snap on man: congrats on having a bike last 100k +

Just click on the G-2156 link in our (a forum Sponsor), Sig. Nobody beats our prices !

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

True, but it would have taken twice as many oil changes.

Very true HH. My time is better spent doing something else. Through Oil Analysis, I am over 9000 on a change where using oil analysis, another good synthetic could barely make 3000 and it had sheared a full viscosity grade.

Bob