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Old 02-05-2013, 08:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
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ZX7R Cam timing

Hi everyone,
I asked this in a post i had in the 7 section about not starting. I am pretty sure im having a valve issue now. I just had to ask before i go tearing stuff apart. Is it possible for me to properly do the cam timing without dropping the engine out. Like removing front mounts and tilting forward or anything. Or should I just follow manual instruction and do it right the first time. Just had to ask as i don't have a lot of time to work on it and still have more to do. Didn't really want to take it all out getting closer to spring and all. Just thought someone may have done it without taking engine out but i want to make sure its done right.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK750 View Post
Hi everyone,
I asked this in a post i had in the 7 section about not starting. I am pretty sure im having a valve issue now. I just had to ask before i go tearing stuff apart. Is it possible for me to properly do the cam timing without dropping the engine out. Like removing front mounts and tilting forward or anything. Or should I just follow manual instruction and do it right the first time. Just had to ask as i don't have a lot of time to work on it and still have more to do. Didn't really want to take it all out getting closer to spring and all. Just thought someone may have done it without taking engine out but i want to make sure its done right.
You can't do this with the engine fully mounted in the frame. The end of the head must be exposed to line up the timing marks on the cams. I don't know if the engine will rotate forward enough while in the frame to allow it either. It's worth. Try and if it doesn't work you're only one bolt away from pulling the engine.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
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If you're going to try this, then pull your front fender so you don't hit it with the engine accidentally.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm not sure whether or not you'll have the frame clearance around the head to rotate the engine forward.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I will have a look tonight. but honestly i think im just gonna take it out and do it. no point damaging something else cause i was too lazy to do it right. Thanks for the input tho, and you may be right it is pretty tight to tilt it forward as well.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have done both my P and N with the engine in place with no issues. You do need to be very careful and meticulous but it can be done. I have the Clymer manual which tells you the engine must come out and the Kawasaki manual which does not say anything. I am sure that no shop is dropping the motor out to set the valve lash. If you are not sure/confident, drop the motor. You do not want to disrupt the timing.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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do i have to remove the clutch , alternator and starter to drop the engine. I know the rad and exhaust will have to go. But is the rest just to save weight? or will there be clearance issues somewhere?
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have removed motors from P models before but I have never tried to just tilt them on the mount. Not sure if the head will clear the frame???
2f2f mentioned a technique in another post that I use, where you use a sharpie marker to make reference marks on the chain and sprockets before removing them. I have used this method a ton of times and have yet to mess up the timing (knock wood!). I think if you take your time and pay attention to how it all goes together, you will find that you can do it without removing the motor. After you do it once, it is a piece of cake to do. Plus, like I said, there is no way the dealer removes the engine to adjust valves. The just charge you enough that they should be!
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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do i have to remove the clutch , alternator and starter to drop the engine. I know the rad and exhaust will have to go. But is the rest just to save weight? or will there be clearance issues somewhere?
No. Yes. No.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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2fat, have you ever tried to rotate the engine as he is asking about? I have not and was wondering about the head clearance????
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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2fat, have you ever tried to rotate the engine as he is asking about? I have not and was wondering about the head clearance????
On my zx12,yes. On a ZX7, no. I think the frame gets in the way due to the curvature around the engine head to the steering head. If I remember correctly you have to drop the engine straight down but I've been known to be wrong. Christi would be the better one to ask as she's done it recently.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Here is what needs to be taken off or disconnected to do valve/cam timing.
Drain the oil
radiator
full exhuast
unplug alternator,
pickup/ oil sensor connector,
chain,
fuel lines,
front motor mount bolts,
upper rear motor mount bolt,spacer, and loosen the lower motor mount bolt.
You will also need the 14mm allen to loosen the threaded inserts for the motor mount bolts.
carbs
remove valve cover,
and cam caps.
You also need to remove the ignition pickup coil cover.
You also need to remove the cam chain tensioner.
That should be all of it.
Place a jack under the oil pan and just lower it enough to be able to see the top of the head.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Sweet, Thanks for all the info. I think as you mentioned in my other thread. I will probably just take it out as i will be so close by the time im that far. And I have not taken it out yet so it will be a good chance to get in and clean some of the hard to reach places on the engine and frame while its out. But ill definitely keep it in mind for the future in case i have to do it again. I should have time to get everything off and have it ready to come out this weekend. Hoping to anyway, that way i can do the timing next week and hopefully get it back in the following weekend. It says in manual to have 2 people to remove engine which i can see makes sense to keep it stable while the bolts are coming off. How much does the actual engine weigh?
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't see how timing the cams (even if you have adjustable gears, which I'm not sure you do) is any different than what you'd have to do when checking your valve clearances.... and I think just about everyone does that with the engine in the frame... or am I missing something?
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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It says in manual to have 2 people to remove engine which i can see makes sense to keep it stable while the bolts are coming off. How much does the actual engine weigh?
The motor is pretty damn heavy.... maybe around 200lbs? There's no way in hell I'd be able to lift it but I've seen stronger dudes muscle it around no problem.

To just remove the engine onto a jack or something doesn't really require 2 people.... if you have a jack that can hold the motor steady while your working you could just leave the motor in the jack, do your timing, then lift it back in.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I don't see how timing the cams (even if you have adjustable gears, which I'm not sure you do) is any different than what you'd have to do when checking your valve clearances.... and I think just about everyone does that with the engine in the frame... or am I missing something?

That is what I was thinking as well. Dropping the motor to time up the cams is a huge time consumer. The chain is already on the crank, just pull it tight and install the cams in the right position. This is exactly the same as when you do a valve adjustment.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I agree it's better to leave the engine in the frame when doing it, It's hard to see the marks on the cams sometimes.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I've seen technicians use all kinds of little gizmos and tricks. One guy that used to work for Kawasaki Canada showed me what he used to line them up. A steel ruler with two small magnets on it, stuck to the sprockets and placed down perfectly lined up with the head surface = timing okay.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:11 AM   #19 (permalink)
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You could use a dental mirror to see at that angle.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:04 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I suggest you do a leak down test and stop the guessing on whats wrong with the bike, as you said spring is getting close.
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