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Old 02-24-2012, 10:41 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Everything's a trade-off.
I guess that was kind of my whole point of the thread. I want my bike as fast and as strong as it can be without dumping $5k into a turbo. I don't care anything about gas mileage, but I do care about the bike mechanical condition. I want the work it for everything it has, while still ensuring she will last a few years....
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:16 AM   #22 (permalink)
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You are basically right at sea level.
I wouldn't run any lower than what the manual says is the minimum required.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:53 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Paying 10 cents more per gallon eases my mind of not have detonation in my cylinders and preventing me to have rebuild the motor. Free country thou if u feel 87 is the way to go the. Go for it. Although someone who designed and tuned the motor for 90+ says to I'll not take the chance for sure. Simple. Dyno the bike with 87 then empty it and dyno at 93 and see what happens. I'm sure the motor would be "ok" to use car oil but do you to save money. It's about twice the difference of cost than a mear 10 cents right? Lol just my 2cents thou.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:14 PM   #24 (permalink)
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you can run your bike on 87.

90+ is what the sticker says because your bike was initially dyno'd on a 90+ octane therefor to guarantee you the close to claimed horsepower, then you should use the same octane as the initial test.

but i only said you "can" , i personally have done it once only because i was running out of gas and the station was out of premium and plus.
but if you really want to be technical about running 87 vs 91, then the first question to ask is what your compression ratio is. that will determine what octane you should be running.

when i was in VA, i was running 93 octane all day everyday, now back in cali most stations carry 91 so its all i run.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:06 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caburian View Post
you can run your bike on 87.

90+ is what the sticker says because your bike was initially dyno'd on a 90+ octane therefor to guarantee you the close to claimed horsepower, then you should use the same octane as the initial test.

but i only said you "can" , i personally have done it once only because i was running out of gas and the station was out of premium and plus.
but if you really want to be technical about running 87 vs 91, then the first question to ask is what your compression ratio is. that will determine what octane you should be running.
I think the engineers already figured out what the compression ratio is and that's why they determined to use 90+.
I don't think it has anything to do with what they picked to run the dyno with.
He's at sea level. He shouldn't use 87.
Your post was a little confusing to me.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:37 PM   #26 (permalink)
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ZX-9R octane history - It's a free country

When I bought my first 9R it had roughly 7K on it. When I read it had 12.2:1 compression ratio pistons and Kawi recommended 90+, I thought that 100 aviation gas wouldn't be enough. Two years ago I began running 89 and 87 in it to see where it would ping at. It made no difference. It wouldn't ping. When I ripped of the 167 MPH at the airstrip last year it was burning 87. That bike now has ~54,000 miles on it. Starts on the first attempt, purrs like a kitten and runs quite nicely with the liter bike boys.

On my second newer 9R, at 9K (new at 4K), it too accepts 87. That's at least half of their combined 52,000 miles, on engines with 12.2:1 pistons. I feel confident, these engines are very close to peak performance tuned, even today.

When I bought them, both returned ~48 MPG running premium. The older bike now peaks out at 55 - 57 MPG on highway cruises, 52 in sweeping canyons (like in the video) and 48 in hairpin canyons. Highs and lows averaged, both bikes run 51 - 53 MPG consistently on 87 octane, while everyone else who's running premium 91 in their (lightly modified) lightweight EFI bikes are seeing 35 - 43 MPG. 43 being the best I've ever seen them record.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e1_ZX-9r View Post
When I bought my first 9R it had roughly 7K on it. When I read it had 12.2:1 compression ratio pistons and Kawi recommended 90+, I thought that 100 aviation gas wouldn't be enough. Two years ago I began running 89 and 87 in it to see where it would ping at. It made no difference. It wouldn't ping. When I ripped of the 167 MPH at the airstrip last year it was burning 87. That bike now has ~54,000 miles on it. Starts on the first attempt, purrs like a kitten and runs quite nicely with the liter bike boys.

On my second newer 9R, at 9K (new at 4K), it too accepts 87. That's at least half of their combined 52,000 miles, on engines with 12.2:1 pistons. I feel confident, these engines are very close to peak performance tuned, even today.

When I bought them, both returned ~48 MPG running premium. The older bike now peaks out at 55 - 57 MPG on highway cruises, 52 in sweeping canyons (like in the video) and 48 in hairpin canyons. Highs and lows averaged, both bikes run 51 - 53 MPG consistently on 87 octane, while everyone else who's running premium 91 in their (lightly modified) lightweight EFI bikes are seeing 35 - 43 MPG. 43 being the best I've ever seen them record.
Can I get an AMEN front the back row please!!!!!
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #28 (permalink)
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It used to be that a compression ratio of 10:1 was the threshold where premium fuel was required. Modern motors, with their oversquare bore/stroke ratios (big bores and short strokes) and highly efficient combustion chambers with 4 valves per cylinder rather than two, require less octane than that old standard would indicate. The more telling figure is one of developed compression, known as Brake Mean Effective Pressure, or BMEP. Bore, stroke, rod length, lift and duration of the cams as well as their timing and overlap all work together to develop high BMEP figures. Higher rpm motors develop their power higher up in the range and the octane needed to do that safely rises with revs. If you never redline your motor, you can get by with less octane. The higher you wind it, the higher the BMEP results and the higher the octane required to avoid detonation. An old, small-bore, long-stroke motor would need 110 octane to preclude detonation with 12:1 compression ratio. Today's flat track Harleys, even though their bore/stroke ratios are not as severely undersquare as in the past, need a good 125-130 octane to cope with their 15:1 compression ratios.
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:55 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e1_ZX-9r View Post
When I bought my first 9R it had roughly 7K on it. When I read it had 12.2:1 compression ratio pistons and Kawi recommended 90+, I thought that 100 aviation gas wouldn't be enough. Two years ago I began running 89 and 87 in it to see where it would ping at. It made no difference. It wouldn't ping. When I ripped of the 167 MPH at the airstrip last year it was burning 87. That bike now has ~54,000 miles on it. Starts on the first attempt, purrs like a kitten and runs quite nicely with the liter bike boys.

On my second newer 9R, at 9K (new at 4K), it too accepts 87. That's at least half of their combined 52,000 miles, on engines with 12.2:1 pistons. I feel confident, these engines are very close to peak performance tuned, even today.

When I bought them, both returned ~48 MPG running premium. The older bike now peaks out at 55 - 57 MPG on highway cruises, 52 in sweeping canyons (like in the video) and 48 in hairpin canyons. Highs and lows averaged, both bikes run 51 - 53 MPG consistently on 87 octane, while everyone else who's running premium 91 in their (lightly modified) lightweight EFI bikes are seeing 35 - 43 MPG. 43 being the best I've ever seen them record.
that's all great, but,......
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1_ZX-9r View Post
Depending. It doesn't hold true in all cases. For you at 800' AMSL New York in an EFI car/bike with an anti-knock sensor, yes. Me in the mountain states at 5,000' AMSL in Idaho with either an EFI car/bike or carburetted car/bike w/o an anti-knock sensor, no. I can deduct 1-2 octane for every 3,000' AMSL or 3 to 4 octane lower than your vehicle/your conditions due to less atmospheric pressure. So my bikes will run happily on 87, for sure and 85 quite possibly
The OP is at 46' ASL.

Last edited by rrzxter; 02-25-2012 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:21 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
.. Higher rpm motors develop their power higher up in the range and the octane needed to do that safely rises with revs. .
I say this everytime we have one of these discussions. The kind of low rpm pinging you can hear is not the best indicator of how high of an octane rating you want. Surre if you have an old pickup and you throw it in high gear and romp on it and it doesn't ping then you probrbaly donbt need a higher octane. But on these kind of engines or a race engine, the long duration cam gives up all the cylinder pressure at low rpm and you may not hear any pinging. However that same long duration helps the engine build more compression at high rpm, which is how they make power up to 12,000 rpm and more. And when the engine detonates (pings) at high rpm you dont hear it until the piston breaks. Not worth it to me. I buy premium.
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:32 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillmackn View Post
He said using regular gas will make the bike ride stronger and harder...he assured me absolutely no harm would come from using regular gas, in fact the bike would run better...thoughts?

Did he "assure" you that he would pay for your engine repair, if he was wrong?

Did he forget to mention that, 87 would be fine.........if you lived in Denver?
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:03 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I run premium fuel only in my 7.
With regular costing me $18 to fill,premium costing me $20 to fill,why fool around?
Premium it is.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:22 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Gas

I only run super unleaded in all my cars trucks and bikes. And the only reason i do is super unleaded burns the cleanest. I like the end result to be the cleanest because it keeps the motor more powerful due to less deposits in the intake chamber. More deposits=smaller volume on the combustion chamber which= less power.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:28 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CBRKILLER View Post
I run premium fuel only in my 7.
With regular costing me $18 to fill,premium costing me $20 to fill,why fool around?
Premium it is.
Did you even read the thread?

There is zero benefit to running an octane higher than what your bike requires. If you have no pinging or knocking, then you have no need for anything higher.

The only thing you are doing is spending more money.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 185EZ View Post
The rear tire on my 14 is low on air.
So I was thinking of rebuilding the motor.
If that doesn't correct the problem, probably replace all the fairings
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
I ride a Honda.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:29 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preybird1 View Post
I only run super unleaded in all my cars trucks and bikes. And the only reason i do is super unleaded burns the cleanest. I like the end result to be the cleanest because it keeps the motor more powerful due to less deposits in the intake chamber. More deposits=smaller volume on the combustion chamber which= less power.
Says who?

The commercials?



The ignorance on different types of gas is astounding. Octane has fuckall to do with how clean the gas burns. The brand and quality of the stuff is what matters there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 185EZ View Post
The rear tire on my 14 is low on air.
So I was thinking of rebuilding the motor.
If that doesn't correct the problem, probably replace all the fairings
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
I ride a Honda.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:35 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post
Did you even read the thread?

There is zero benefit to running an octane higher than what your bike requires. If you have no pinging or knocking, then you have no need for anything higher.
The only thing you are doing is spending more money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rileydeed View Post
I say this everytime we have one of these discussions. The kind of low rpm pinging you can hear is not the best indicator of how high of an octane rating you want. Sure if you have an old pickup and you throw it in high gear and romp on it and it doesn't ping then you probably donbt need a higher octane. But on these kind of engines or a race engine, the long duration cam gives up all the cylinder pressure at low rpm and you may not hear any pinging. However that same long duration helps the engine build more compression at high rpm, which is how they make power up to 12,000 rpm and more. And when the engine detonates (pings) at high rpm you dont hear it until the piston breaks. Not worth it to me. I buy premium.
Don't believe me? Fine, it's your engine.
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So EZ, a caveman can do it.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:39 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post

The ignorance on different types of gas is astounding. Octane has fuckall to do with how clean the gas burns. The brand and quality of the stuff is what matters there.
Squidge, you are 100% correct.

But, you have the people skills of an electric fence.
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:28 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I pride myself on that fact.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 185EZ View Post
The rear tire on my 14 is low on air.
So I was thinking of rebuilding the motor.
If that doesn't correct the problem, probably replace all the fairings
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
I ride a Honda.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:31 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rileydeed View Post
Don't believe me? Fine, it's your engine.
Yes it is. And having ran my 7 at 8k+ rpm for 3 hours (yes I was speeding) on regular low octane gas without any problems or oddities the whole way - in the rain no less, leads me to believe its just fine.

And if Kawasaki says it is fine to use the lower octane stuff, I would tend to agree with them. Afterall, they do have a reputation of motors that don't explode at high RPM to protect.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 185EZ View Post
The rear tire on my 14 is low on air.
So I was thinking of rebuilding the motor.
If that doesn't correct the problem, probably replace all the fairings
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
I ride a Honda.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:02 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post
Did you even read the thread?

There is zero benefit to running an octane higher than what your bike requires. If you have no pinging or knocking, then you have no need for anything higher.

The only thing you are doing is spending more money.
Yes,the whole thread
These bikes will run fine on regualar,i know this
Do you run AMSOIL syn?
Do you know that running AMSOIL syn is not require for your bike and is considered by most to be overkill and a waste of money?
But thats not wasting money?
You wanna run regular,have at it,i like to run premium.
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