Big trouble: had in oil, bike is locked up - ZX Forums
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Big trouble: had in oil, bike is locked up

Drove it yesterday. Seem to run fine.( sounded like cams clacking away at rockers, but that was normal for this bike.

Went to start it today.......on the first button press it went to turn and then suddenly stopped like a wrench was thrown in a gear.

Have clutch cover off. Plates and springs appear to be in the same place. Hub seems to stay put when I try to pull it out.

Any experiences and suggestions are well come. Ran fine yesterday, so some thing came loose.
Richard the Rooster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Seemed to be quite a bit of gas when I went to drain the oil. I rebuilt the petcock with new gaskets/seals. Maybe new needles and float valves are in order. Petcock was turned off after every ride so it must be leaking somewhere. Perhaps cylinders are just full of gas?
Richard the Rooster is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 11:01 AM
#1
 
185EZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
From: Lake Havasu City,AZ USA
I Ride: 2014 ZX14R

Posts: 54,608
Garage
Sounds like motor hydrolocked
pull plugs and see if motor turns over
hopefully nothing got bent

December 2011 ROTM winner



Quote:
Originally Posted by massa222000 View Post
YOU'RE F - KING AWESOME!!!
185EZ is offline  
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Pulled the oil. Pulled plugs and turned engine by hand/breaker bar on timing rotor. Turns freely now.

Need a new clutch cover gasket now ( thought maybe my clutch hub came loose, it was the last thing I installed before this)

Yeah, It smells of gas and seems it was hydro locked.

How common is it to bend a rod when this happens?
How do I tell if it bent the connecting rod?
Richard the Rooster is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 01:18 PM
#1
 
185EZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
From: Lake Havasu City,AZ USA
I Ride: 2014 ZX14R

Posts: 54,608
Garage
Since it happened just when you hit starter button you might be ok.
If it happened when it started you may have bent a rod
you'll know when you start it up

December 2011 ROTM winner



Quote:
Originally Posted by massa222000 View Post
YOU'RE F - KING AWESOME!!!
185EZ is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Well.
New clutch cover gasket
More gas
Float valves and needles
Oil
This will take a little bit, but I will report back here when done.
God I hope it isn't toast.
Richard the Rooster is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 03:08 PM
Presidenté of Whoring
 
LeeCig's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2012
From: just beyond your computer screen.
I Ride: 2002 ZX9R

Posts: 21,250
Garage
Happened to me once trying to start. No damage was done (that I could tell).
I lightly stuffed some paper towels into the opening of the spark plug holes, and cranked it with the starter letting the paper soak up the fuel.
Replace towels and repeat until you dry it out.

Good luck!

Presidenté of Whoring
Sir Serious Zip-Tie Lovin, Pizza Thuggin, Blue Wafflin, ZX-9 Thrashin Post Whore Of ZXF

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92K1500 View Post
You win Lee.

I can't even form a response to that.
PM ME if your computer sucks!!!!!! (click here)
LeeCig is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 03:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Tampa, Fl
I Ride: 96 ZX7RR, 97 ZX7R (Orig. Owner)

Posts: 162
Garage
What I always to his shut the pedcock off and let the bike idle till it runs the float bowls dry. I figure it the pedcock has a leak it would not die. Also keeps the jets from getting nasty.
Lenny H is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
I basically pulled the spark plugs and by hand slowly turned the engine. I could hear it hiss and push the fuel past the rings.( my 5/8 socket for spark plugs won't fit now?????)

I'm going to try the shutting the petcock off and run it dry trick, but really it has to be two things.

Petcock
Float valves

Perhaps even dirty fuel ( sat for ten years and still get crud in fuel filter when ran)
New fuel though.

Petcock leack
Richard the Rooster is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 04:17 PM
#1
 
185EZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
From: Lake Havasu City,AZ USA
I Ride: 2014 ZX14R

Posts: 54,608
Garage
Doesn't take much fuel to hydrolock a motor.
My guess is the carburetor associated with the cylinder that pushed out all the fuel.
Your petcock could be bad but the floats should have stopped the fuel

December 2011 ROTM winner



Quote:
Originally Posted by massa222000 View Post
YOU'RE F - KING AWESOME!!!
185EZ is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-02-2017, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Float valves and petcocks.
Today has been such a mess. Thought I had the bike squared away. I have to wait a bit to call sudco for float valve needles, seats and gaskets.

Kawasaki clutch cover gasket will take a minute to get in.

Oil is easy, will probably use rotella this time instead of FUCHS silkolene till I get it figured out.

The petcock rebuild is a K and L I picked up from the local kawi dealer. Thought it would work......guess not...
Richard the Rooster is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Did quite a bit this past week or two.
1.)New clutch cover gasket

2.)Took oil pan off, cleaned pick up, and replaced with new gasket

3.)Rechecked valve lash

4.)Took off exhaust headers and have copper gaskets/ spacers coming from kawi
Ans last did a compression test.
My findings.....I have the carbs off and getting ready to clean/ replace/ rebuild if need be, so the test is a cold compression test.
Cylinders 1, 2,4 read 181#,172#150#172#
With cylinder 3 being lower than the rest.

I put two cap fulls of oildown the spark plug hole and it shot up to 200# rather quickly.

Would a bent rod act like this? Damaged piston? Or is it just rings?
Richard the Rooster is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 02:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Hammerhead's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
From: Southern Illinois
I Ride: '07 ZX-14

Posts: 11,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard the Rooster View Post
Did quite a bit this past week or two.
1.)New clutch cover gasket

2.)Took oil pan off, cleaned pick up, and replaced with new gasket

3.)Rechecked valve lash

4.)Took off exhaust headers and have copper gaskets/ spacers coming from kawi
Ans last did a compression test.
My findings.....I have the carbs off and getting ready to clean/ replace/ rebuild if need be, so the test is a cold compression test.
Cylinders 1, 2,4 read 181#,172#150#172#
With cylinder 3 being lower than the rest.

I put two cap fulls of oildown the spark plug hole and it shot up to 200# rather quickly.

Would a bent rod act like this? Damaged piston? Or is it just rings?
You'll know when you fire it up, but if a rod is bent, the worse it's bent, the lower your compression will be in that cylinder and adding oil will not bring it up much.

It may be a pig, but it's a pig with a rocket in it's ass!
Hammerhead is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 03:42 AM
Senior Member
 
johnboat's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: Houston
I Ride: ZX11d Current... had 1984 GPz1100

Posts: 247
When I first got my 97 zx11 this last thanksgiving, it had sat for a year or so and had crud in tank... I hydrolocked mine a couple of times getting the carbs lined out... I cleaned the needles and polished the seats, but it still leaked by, replaced the needles and seats, and finally got the fuel bypass issue lined out.... you need to also seal your tank from the rust and crud... the fine particles will get in the carbs and do it all over again..... don't bother with those single stage tank sealers... go to Amazon and order some Caswell Epoxy tank sealer... it is a two part epoxy similar to JB Weld that coats the entire insides of the tank... has good instructions and plenty of youtube videos on the 'how to' ... you don't even have to fully clean the inside of tank... get all the loose stuff out and coat it...replace all fuel lines and filter, flush out pump and steel lines that go up in the tank... that will end your fuel problems.. that stuff is serious fix and will probably outlast all of us... also on your carbs, don't bother with the Berryman carb dip...they changed the formula and it is crap now days.... waste of money..sad, was the best stuff made... I did the PineSol method...you can google and youtube it...surprisingly it worked better than I had hoped...still have to do a little brush work, etc..but cleaned them almost like new... pull the old seats first and make sure to get the crud behind them... bit me the first time.... Once I rebuilt carbs and fuel system, I would shut fuel petcock every time I ran it for a few days just to make sure I wasn't still leaking by into cylinders... I got lucky..bending a rod is bad news.... and starters are strong enough to do it in the right circumstances... If you use starter to blow out fuel from cylinders..be very careful with plug wires...fire bad... keep a large fuel rated extinguisher close by when working with fuel system... lesson learned hard way years ago with a 69 Z/28...poor hood...LOL Good luck buddy and hope you get it lined out..take care

Johnny
johnboat is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard the Rooster View Post
Did quite a bit this past week or two.
1.)New clutch cover gasket

2.)Took oil pan off, cleaned pick up, and replaced with new gasket

3.)Rechecked valve lash

4.)Took off exhaust headers and have copper gaskets/ spacers coming from kawi
Ans last did a compression test.
My findings.....I have the carbs off and getting ready to clean/ replace/ rebuild if need be, so the test is a cold compression test.
Cylinders 1, 2,4 read 181#,172#150#172#
With cylinder 3 being lower than the rest.

I put two cap fulls of oildown the spark plug hole and it shot up to 200# rather quickly.

Would a bent rod act like this? Damaged piston? Or is it just rings?
You'll know when you fire it up, but if a rod is bent, the worse it's bent, the lower your compression will be in that cylinder and adding oil will not bring it up much.
I'll get the carbs sorted out here next, then listen for any noises that changed.

Yeah, the compression shot way up when I added oil in the. Cylinder.

The tank right now is being steamed. Plan to weld tank up here in a bit.
Richard the Rooster is offline  
post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Just did another compression test after work so I could get a wet reading as well.

I started with another cold dry compression test as I have yet to still tear once again into the carbs.
Reading are as follows.
1.) Dry: 190
Wet: 205

2.) Dry: 170
Wet: 182

3.) Dry: 183
Wet: 190

4.) Dry: 173
Wet: 188

Not sure why the 3rd cylinder seems to be okay now.......maybe the gas going into that cylinder washed the wall and after the oil down the cylinder from yesterday, and fresh oil circulation, made better piston/ring contact?

Only thing I can think of. Now to clean carbs, see about petcock gaskets and wait on exhaust gaskets to come in the mail.

Tank was steam cleaned today, and need to get incontact with my welder and see about opening up the tank and having the inside media blasted/ sanded to get rid of the corrosion.
Richard the Rooster is offline  
post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboat View Post
When I first got my 97 zx11 this last thanksgiving, it had sat for a year or so and had crud in tank... I hydrolocked mine a couple of times getting the carbs lined out... I cleaned the needles and polished the seats, but it still leaked by, replaced the needles and seats, and finally got the fuel bypass issue lined out.... you need to also seal your tank from the rust and crud... the fine particles will get in the carbs and do it all over again..... don't bother with those single stage tank sealers... go to Amazon and order some Caswell Epoxy tank sealer... it is a two part epoxy similar to JB Weld that coats the entire insides of the tank... has good instructions and plenty of youtube videos on the 'how to' ... you don't even have to fully clean the inside of tank... get all the loose stuff out and coat it...replace all fuel lines and filter, flush out pump and steel lines that go up in the tank... that will end your fuel problems.. that stuff is serious fix and will probably outlast all of us... also on your carbs, don't bother with the Berryman carb dip...they changed the formula and it is crap now days.... waste of money..sad, was the best stuff made... I did the PineSol method...you can google and youtube it...surprisingly it worked better than I had hoped...still have to do a little brush work, etc..but cleaned them almost like new... pull the old seats first and make sure to get the crud behind them... bit me the first time.... Once I rebuilt carbs and fuel system, I would shut fuel petcock every time I ran it for a few days just to make sure I wasn't still leaking by into cylinders... I got lucky..bending a rod is bad news.... and starters are strong enough to do it in the right circumstances... If you use starter to blow out fuel from cylinders..be very careful with plug wires...fire bad... keep a large fuel rated extinguisher close by when working with fuel system... lesson learned hard way years ago with a 69 Z/28...poor hood...LOL Good luck buddy and hope you get it lined out..take care

Johnny
I might still do this. I had planned on opening the tank, grinding out the corrosion with a dotco and/or media blasting the pitting. After that it was supposed to get penetrant tested to spot all the flaws, boric anodized and then welded back up. For extra measure for protecting the weld I might caswell like you mentioned and chromic pen the outside. Once done it would go to paint. That's the plan anyway.
2fat2fly likes this.
Richard the Rooster is offline  
post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:32 AM
Senior Member
 
johnboat's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: Houston
I Ride: ZX11d Current... had 1984 GPz1100

Posts: 247
Richard, you don't have to do all that with the Caswell... it even says in the instructions to don't clean it real hard... the rough surface will just help it stick to the inside... no need to open the tank and weld it back and all that... read the instructions on the Caswell system... they say to put a few screws in it and rattle around a bit just to get the loose chunks out and then coat it... the epoxy will lock everything down... plus it fixes any pin holes, etc.. it is like JB Weld, if you have ever used that stuff... I have always been a big fan of two part epoxy's... I have fixed a ton of things with it... almost as strong as aluminum when done right.. just follow the instructions that come with it to the letter... pay attention to temperature..as it is real important to follow guide lines that come with it... I still have the instruction sheet some where and can possibly copy and post it here... you can also add a coloring agent, but has to be epoxy compatible... lot of people add white epoxy pigment to be able to see the coating inside the tank better... I saw some of the tanks that people did with it and I couldn't believe how bad they were on the inside... I was going to muratic acid clean mine, but after reading and watching a few youtube vids... I didn't bother... just coat it, let it cure...go on with life...worry about other things at that point...haha... if you do the pigment, google it and make sure to get the epoxy compatible stuff...not a oil paint pigment or craft type...amazon has it for just a couple of bucks..

Here is the kit I used... https://www.amazon.com/Caswell-Epoxy...le+tank+sealer

and here is the white pigment I used...makes inside of tank brite white and there is no doubt as to did it cover everywhere....once cured, flashlight shinned inside makes it obvious that it is covered... just plug the fuel fitting holes good before coating.. you can use clay or whatever... I used clear silicone and let it dry before coating..it pulls right out of the threads... run a little wire brush over the threads once cleaned and good as new...good luck..

https://www.amazon.com/CASTIN-CRAFT-...+pigment+white

Johnny
johnboat is offline  
post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 05:43 AM
Member
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Rhode Island

Posts: 92
I used the evapo rust stuff got it from home depot . Was 25 a gallon in an old rusted turbo tank . Its not acid it dilutes with water and was amazed how good it worked . Made it look new when done . They say on the package that you can save it and use it over again . This tank was really bad when i got it thought for sure it was junk . The only mistake I made was should have bought three gallons as 2 didnt fill it . So had to keep moving the tank to different positions . Just kept moving it let it sit over night . Check it out on the u tube . Usually dont try the magic potions but the stuff worked great .

!990 zx 7
1985 gpz 750 turbo
1981 gpz 550
1983 gpz 550
1990 fzr 400
1982 gpz 750
riturbo is offline  
post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-22-2017, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 252
Well, the tank in question is aluminum. I have looked at all kinds of products on the web and hear great things, but also hear horror stories.

I had recently rebuilt my petcock not too long ago, and so I watched some youtube videos on how one person rebuilds them. Basically polished some surfaces for a better seal against the mad face gasket and other o ring.

I popped off the carb bowls and low and behold saw some residual black gunk( looked like pepper) in the bowls. Very smalls like silt almost, so a carb cleaning is in store.

This is probably how it happened. Tank was still crusty after cleaning. Pet cock spring washer on petcock turn knob became weak. Surfaces in petcock where rough enough to let fuel by.
Dirty gas made it's way past fuel filter and into carbs.
Needle can't seal very well, so it drained into the cylinders.
Richard the Rooster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the ZX Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome