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2012 ZX14R runs shitty in town after long ride.

3K views 35 replies 8 participants last post by  WillZX14 
#1 ·
2012 ZX14R runs poorly in town after long ride.

After long rides on the freeway or in the twisties, I notice that the engine wants to die when I get back into town and stop at a red light or stop sign. And, I noticed that when accelerating from a stop, if I just give a little throttle the engine also wants to die. Recently, I've been giving extra throttle just to keep the rpm tacking a little higher so that I don't stall.

I've never had any work done (other than oil, oil filter, and tires) and it has about 29,000 miles.

Is this normal for a hot Ninja after a long ride?
 
#3 ·
If you don't find anything there, remove the tank, pull the fuel pump and check the filter screen.

Normally, valves lose clearance (usually exhaust valves more than intakes) and the engine will be hard to start when cold.

On a carbureted machine, cold engine issues usually relate to a lean condition and hot engine issues to a rich condition. With EFI, it's the opposite. Your problem occurs with a hot engine, so that makes me think it's starving for fuel.
 
#4 ·
@WillZX14 -- I've never had the valves adjusted and it is still the original battery. Starts just fine, so I think the battery is still okay.
@Hammerhead -- Thanks for the suggestion to check the fuel filter screen.

Ah . . . it looks like I'll have to take it into the shop then. Saturdays are usually walk-in simple jobs at the dealer, so I don't know if they'd be willing to tackle this until early next week.
 
#6 ·
A friend had a brand-new 14 R and it started running like fried crap on a road trip. When he pulled the tank and took out the fuel pump, the screen was nearly 100% blocked with sand from a crappy gas station he had to fuel up from. Cleaned it up, put it back together and it ran fine afterwards. Worth a look.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I am going up to about 7,000 ft (Big Bear) or 5,000 ft (Angeles Crest Forest Highway), but the freeway portion at the end of the ride is about 45 minutes to 1 hour at not too far above sea level when coming back from Big Bear and about 20 minutes just above sea level when coming back from the ACF.

I didn't make it into the shop on Saturday, so I'll take it in on either Monday or Tuesday.
 
#10 ·
Because it has a little more than 29,000 and has never had a service (other than oil/filter), they want to do a full service:

* Gasket, Head Cover; quantity 1
* Gasket, Head Hole; quantity 4
* Ring-O; quantity 6
* Gasket, Tensioner; quantity 1
* Element-Air Filter; quantity 1
* CR9EIA-9 Spark Plug; quantity 4
* Aluma Cool QT Pre Dl (aka oil); quantity 4

Total in parts: $291.89.

Labor will be in the neighborhood of $700.00.

A few of the parts are on special order and will arrive in a couple of days. They said I will need to leave the bike (after the special order of parts arrive) so the valves can be adjusted when the bike is cold. I've already prepaid the parts.
 
#21 ·
#13 · (Edited)
Aluma Cool is coolant. . . .
That makes me feel a little better about the expense since I just had my oil and filter changed a week ago when they put on new tires, and I was thinking that the oil change was wasted because now they're going to do it again. I'm glad to hear that it is coolant instead that I paid for this time around -- thank you. :)
 
#14 ·
If they are adjusting the valves the 1st time at 29K I'm surprised, and its a red flag, that they dont recommend a throttle body sync also. Who is the proposed service??

If it was me I would do it myself and maybe have then do the TB sync, but I have concern the min wage bozo even know how to do a TB sync.
 
#15 · (Edited)
If they are adjusting the valves the 1st time at 29K I'm surprised, and its a red flag, that they dont recommend a throttle body sync also. Who is the proposed service?? . . .
It is a local Kawasaki dealer in the Los Angeles area. I can request/suggest a throttle body sync and order parts in advance (if they are needed). Since the bike will be apart when they are operating, I might as well do whatever is regularly required while it's opened up.

I generally don't spend money on maintenance (other than oil/filter) until my vehicles give me overt signs of needing mechanical attention. So this would definitely be the first major service for this bike since I bought it new in 2012. I don't think I ride it that hard -- I'm almost never in the power band and it's never been to redline, unless a mechanic took it for a test spin after an oil change or tire change and revved it up.
 
#16 ·
Lawlist,

The TB Sync is a process to set the TB vacuum to spec and balance the 4 TBs after the valve adjust. Should not involve parts. The service needs an expensive Kawi tool (~$2K) to do the service correctly, make sure they have it, Special Tool - Vacuum Gauge 57001-1369.

We should meet up for a ride up to Newcombs after your beast is brought back to life.
 
#17 ·
I agree with HH those parts seem to be a bit pricey.
I haven't priced them out individually but just guessing that the plugs and air filter should be $100 and that leaves some gaskets at almost $200.
I would make sure what you're getting because of this,
Labor will be in the neighborhood of $700.00.
Are you geting a valve clearance "check" or actual adjustment?
And like rswendsen said make sure to get TB sync.
Me? I would be asking more questions as to what I'm actually getting for $1000
 
#20 · (Edited)
I agree with HH those parts seem to be a bit pricey.
I haven't priced them out individually but just guessing that the plugs and air filter should be $100 and that leaves some gaskets at almost $200.
I would make sure what you're getting because of this,

Are you geting a valve clearance "check" or actual adjustment?
And like rswendsen said make sure to get TB sync.
Me? I would be asking more questions as to what I'm actually getting for $1000
IIRC, the cover gasket was around $36, the plug well gaskets $8 each, iridium plugs (the best) were $7-8 apiece.The cover sealing washers are a couple bucks each. The CCT gasket is a freakin O-ring. Engine Ice runs around $19 bucks a jug and you need a jug-and-a-half. They can get up to $10 a shim for valve adjustment shims, but they get to keep the ones that come out. So without shims, around $150 in parts would be more in line.

Biggest time-consumer is ripping off and replacing the plastic and disconnecting and reconnecting of all the electrical multi-plugs. Throttle body synch takes about an hour because you need a long, right-angle screwdriver and it's a bitch to find and turn the screws. (I use a mirror on an extension handle) Removing and replacing the plugs and doing the valve shim check and replace is only a couple of hours tops. But if they charge $85/ hr. for 8 hrs, that's $680 right there.
 
#19 ·
@rswendsen: Thank you for helping me understand what is meant by a throttle body sync -- greatly appreciated. I wouldn't be able to keep up with anyone remotely familiar with the ACH, as I'm generally in the 50 MPH range on the moderate curves, and usually move to the right when the experienced riders zip on by. I lean the bike over quite a bit sometimes, but am not one to touch my knee to the ground. :) The PowerPilot 2CT have kept me upright since 2012, so I'm sticking with them until they become discontinued.
@185EZ: Thank you for the distinction between a check and an adjustment. In my own mind, I had assumed it was an adjustment, but cannot remember 100% if that was what was discussed this morning when I had them order the parts they thought was needed. When I bring the bike back in once the parts arrive (in a few days), I'll be sure to clarify that I want "the works" for my $700.00 in labor.
 
#22 ·
HH,

I looked into the Kawi vacuum gauge tool before I did the valves and TB sync on my '06. The Kawi tool measures the vacuum so the tech can (supposedly) set the pressure to spec as well as balance the TB to each other. The gauges I saw and the one I got from MotionPro only give you pressure relative to each other. But you are correct a good set of calibrated vacuum gauges s/b about $50 x 4 to do the same as the Kawi Tool. Think I looked up the price in BikeBandit with the Kawi p/n.

Lawlist,

At the Big Box Stealership near me - the hated Del Amo Motorsports, it was clear to me that they didn't really know how to do a valve check and adjust. Service manager told me almost no one bothers to pay for that amount of service anymore. I found that out because some of the gray beards here advised to check with the local service for different size shims they pull out of other bikes. Shims are steel and precision ground so they are fine to reuse. When I inquired on shims they looked at me strange like "yeah we have heard about those but never seen any ..." Hardest part about my valve adjust was getting parts. Several of the shims I needed had to come from Japan and took over two weeks to get.
 
#23 ·
Valve clearance adjustment is not for the shade-tree mechanic who does his own oil changes and brake pad renewals, but anyone with reasonable mechanics skills, a good set of tools and a shop manual can accomplish the job. Same thing with throttle body adjustment and synch. Obviously there's a reason some shops don't do it and others charge big bux to.

I have a HotCams shim kit (about $80 on fleabay) that I have loaned to many friends who do their own as well as have done my own several times and those of others a time or two. Saves a lot of running back and forth to a dealer or waiting on mail orders to get the shims you need.

If you want to invest in the tools and time to do your own, more power to ya. Next year when I'm retired, I plan on taking on a few jobs like this to supplement my retirement and give me some play money for motorcycle stuff. The investment is pretty heavy just to do your own, but I have been doing this shit for over 40 years, so I might as well get something out of it besides keeping my own machines up to snuff.
 
#24 ·
If you want to invest in the tools and time to do your own, more power to ya. Next year when I'm retired, I plan on taking on a few jobs like this to supplement my retirement and give me some play money for motorcycle stuff. The investment is pretty heavy just to do your own, but I have been doing this shit for over 40 years, so I might as well get something out of it besides keeping my own machines up to snuff.
I like the way you think.
 
#29 · (Edited)
The parts came in yesterday afternoon, and I brought in the bike today -- looking somewhat stripped. I figure since it was going to be in the shop for a couple of days, I might as well remove the Corbin seat with backrest and the 3 Givi luggage. They asked about the missing stuff, and I said that the seat was about a grand and so were the luggage setups, so I decided to leave two grand at home.

They do not have the tool needed for a throttle body sync. They said they have a similar tool (for another model bike) and an adapter which may not work. I encouraged them to call around to sister dealers or elsewhere to borrow the tool, because I didn't want to have to pay another shop to open up the bike again to do something that could have been done while it was open the first time around. They will make some calls, including to some of the stand-by mechanics that work for the dealer. I guess it is like any other business -- when you have more work, you schedule more employees to come in.

The bike needs to sit for 24 hours to be cold so the valves can be adjusted. They said they have shims of varying sizes and can get additional ones from other sources in the area if needed. I'll follow-up tomorrow during the day to see if they can get the tool for the throttle body sync.

FYI: Be careful for the seat hooks on the gas tank when riding without a seat, and remember that the riding position is a little different, so don't slam anything important against the base of the tank.
 
#32 · (Edited)
$931.00 labor + $291.89 in parts = $1,222.89.

Resolution: Customer requests valve adjustment; Customer requests Throttle Body Sync. Checked the valves. They were all .16 intake and .23 exhaust. Well within spec. Replaced air filter and spark plugs along with all the gaskets for the valve cover. Replaced coolant. Test ride the unit. It rides great. Unit pings under hard acceleration at low speeds. Ran the bike until it was hot with the fans running. The bike ran great idling and running with no stalling.

Recommended: Fill with 91 octane and/or try a different gas station. The quality or the octane of the fuel could be contributing to the pinging. Other than that, the bike runs great.

___

I took it this afternoon/evening for a 110 mile round-trip through the twisties of the Angeles Crest Forest Highway, setting a new personal world record of 1 hour and 5 minutes from Wrightwood to La Cañada Flintridge (about 55 miles). The vegetarian pizza was all scrunched-up to one side of the cardboard box, but it still tasted good with a couple of shots of bourbon to wash it down when I got back home . Coming back into town, the bike did not stall when coming to a stop at any stop signs or or red lights. The bike is idling smoothly at 1,100 rpm without any fluctuation. I seem to remember there was a fluctuation of rpm at idle before the service, and I like the smooth idle now. They showed me the old air filter, which was pretty dirty with lots of bugs -- they said that could have been a contributing factor to the bike stalling when hot. The old spark plugs didn't look that bad. They told me that they have a tool to do the throttle body sync, but it is not the digital tool recommended by Kawasaki for this particular bike. So, I guess that's it for another 30,000 miles (I hope).
 
#36 ·
$931.00 labor + $291.89 in parts = $1,222.89.
Recommended: Fill with 91 octane and/or try a different gas station. The quality or the octane of the fuel could be contributing to the pinging. Other than that, the bike runs great.
I think you made out well; for that price, I agree with letting dealer/mechanics do the work. Glad it's running nice and smooth.

I'm sure there's warranty on their work? yes?
 
#34 · (Edited)
Yeah, the pizza looked like an accordion -- I ate the worst looking slices first just to get them out of the way. :)

The initial verbal ballpark was $972.00 (with parts, but no mention of the TB sync). Then, I ordered the parts and came back mid-week. When I came back midweek, the printed estimate was $833.00 without the TB sync because they weren't sure if their tool + adapter would fit. Since they were ultimately able to perform the TB sync, they charged $98.00 for that service.

Although I am a negotiator by trade, I don't generally negotiate with motorcycle or automobile dealer mechanics. I figure it is usually better to have them happy and do good work, then make them want to cut corners due to a negotiated reduction in their initial estimate. I don't know how much extra I am paying over a period of a lifetime (by not negotiating), but I don't think it will end up being very significant in the grand scheme of things.

The closest dealer stopped servicing/selling Kawasaki, so now I travel a bit further to this current one. They have a few tables where I can work on my laptop if it's doable during the same day, and there are restaurants and a haircut place within walking distance. :)
 
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