Gtr Specifications Update

[Jasperbob]

The UK web site showing 279 kg dry weight for the Concours 14 translates to 613 pounds or 2.2 lbs per kg. which should make for a comfortable road bike and everything you read says it has a light feel when you climb aboard so I'm not dissapointed. The 32 inch seat height (815 mm) may be OK. I'm a little over 6 ft. tall with a 32 inch inseam so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's comfortable.

[Daka]

Kaiser Zose I am not sure were you get weights from, but the fjr dry 609, concours 613, st 687, triumph sprint st is 511. If you wan,t a very light st with adequit performance check out the triumph you will be pleasently surprised I now I was.
Daka

[Kaiser Soze]

Originally Posted by Daka

Kaiser Zose I am not sure were you get weights from, but the fjr dry 609, concours 613, st 687, triumph sprint st is 511. If you wan,t a very light st with adequit performance check out the triumph you will be pleasently surprised I now I was.
Daka

I do not know of any industry standard for measuring "dry weight". It seems that it is up to each manufacturer to decide how that should be measured. Does it include the engine oil and coolant? What about the battery? If a bike comes with hard luggage standard, is that included?

One of the magazines that I subscribed to for many years, is the USA publication "Motorcycle Consumer News". It is a subscription-only publication, and unlike the glossy magazines that you find on the newstand, they do not accept any advertising. Because of that, they have no qualms about telling the truth. Whenever they do a full review of a motorcycle, they actually fill it up with fuel, then put it on a calibrated scale and weigh it. What a concept! Instead of just regurgitating the numbers given by the manufacturer, they acually take measurements! Their numbers are reliable for the purpose of doing comparisons among different manufacturers. Hence, what I did was to use the two "dry weight" numbers from Kawasaki UK, to determine the difference in weight between the C-14 and the ZX-14, which difference is 140 lbs, give or take a pound or two. Then, I added that difference to the wet weight of the ZX-14, non-ABS, as measured by MCNews, thus deducing the wet weight number for the C-14, as I reasonably expect it to be measured by MCNews whenever they get their hands on one to do a full test. The other numbers that I gave, for the purpose of apples-to-apples comparisons, are the wet weight numbers for those various bikes, as measured by MCNews. The only adjustment that anyone should have to make to any of those numbers, in order to do a fully proper apples-to-apples comparison, is to make minor adjustments for the fuel capacity, so that bikes are not penalized for having greater fuel capacity.

Please note that the only significant and likely source of error using this approach, is if Kawasaki did not measure the "dry weight" of the C-14 using the same rules as they used with the ZX-14 (ZZR1400 non-ABS). It doesn't seem at all likely to me that they would not measure the dry weights the same way, especially given that the C-14 comes out 140 lbs heavier. If, by chance, they did use a different rule for measuring the dry weight of the C-14, it only underscores the problem with trying to use "dry weight" to compare two different bikes from two different manufacturers, since, if the numbers for two different bikes from the same manufacturer are meaningless, what does that say about the numbers for bikes from different manufacturers? If you take the measured wet weights from MCNews and compare them to the dry weights reported by the manufacturers, it becomes all too apparent that the different manufacturers do not measure dry weight consistently. The difference, between the dry weight quoted by a manufacturer and the measured wet weight, will typically be anywhere from 15% to 20% of the dry weight. Manifestly, there is no way that the fuel can account for that. Moreover, there is no easy explanation for the huge variation, from one manufacturer to the next, in the difference between reported dry weight and measured wet weight.

As for the Triumph Sprint ST, which you mentioned, curiously, its ergos will be similar to my XX, and it is extraordinarily unlikely that it could offer any notable improvement over the XX. Rather, I would only give up the phenomenal power and ulltra-smooth engine charactistics.

I have been saying all along that the primary difference between the FJR and the C-14 will be the engine smoothness, because the C-14 would likely come with additional weight that would largely offset whatever advantage in power that it might have. The advantage that the C-14 will have in power-to-weight ratio, as compared to the FJR, will not be great, although it will be greater in comparison to the latest FJR which comes with ABS, since it weighs significantly more than the earlier FJR sold in the USA without ABS. As is always the case with these things, subjective preferences are all that matters in the end, and from that standpoint, it is foolish to even try to identify "objective" differences between two different bikes. But, to the extent that it makes any sense at all to try and do that, the predominant objective difference, to my way of thinking at least, will be the difference in engine smoothness. I expect that better management of mass in the C-14 will nullify its penalty in mass, and that its handling will be comparable to the FJR, and possibly a little better. I certainly hope so, because to be honest, the FJR's handling isn't one of its better characteristics.

[mumu07]

Hello
http://www.ibike.com.hk/01_bike_repo...c1400/cc14.htm

[Jasperbob]

Hi Folks,
Check out the following from Top Speed and be sure to go on to page 3.

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/...15274-pa1.html

[Kaiser Soze]

Anytime that a magazine provides quantitative data, they should identify the source of that data, i.e., whether it is the manufacturer's data, or data from some other independent source, in which case they should explain where they got the data, and how it was measured. When they mix together data from the manufacturer with data from other, unidentified sources, the effect is to turn the whole lot of it into a pile of meaningless digits.

[pedrogordo]

'Hi. I think you guys are understimating Kawasaki. I'm sure that when GTR1400 will be side by side with FJR, STX or BMW1200GT in a test, they will eat the smoke of the Kawasaki rubber. Kawasaki leeds ever. Remember ZZR 1100, remember ZX10, remember ZZR1400? In a few months or years, people will remember GTR1400. I only regret two things in GTR, the exausht pipe and the fuel tank with only 22 liters. But I'm sure it will be the most powerfull and quickest bike of the ST segment. regards.

[PaulFlammes]

309 kg wet
is that what kawi understands for NEW CONCEPT?

310 bike
80 pilot
60 passenger
----

450 kg is it possible to ride sportive with that weight?

[Jasperbob]

Originally Posted by PaulFlammes

309 kg wet
is that what kawi understands for NEW CONCEPT?

310 bike
80 pilot
60 passenger
----

450 kg is it possible to ride sportive with that weight?

YES! GOING TO BE A GREAT SMOOTH RIDE WITH GOOD HANDLING TOO.

[08CC14]

Originally Posted by PaulFlammes

309 kg wet
is that what kawi understands for NEW CONCEPT?

310 bike
80 pilot
60 passenger
----

450 kg is it possible to ride sportive with that weight?

Considering it's 44 pounds lighter than the ST1300.... I think the Connie will be just fine. I road tested the ST1300 as well as the 1200GT and FJR1300, they all pulled their own weight with little effort (pun intended). If you're wankin' about a few extra pounds here and there, go on a diet. If you're wankin' about an extra inch of seat height, buy some boots with heels. If you're wankin' about a gallon of gas, shut the hell up. My bladder won't go the full distance without a pitstop anyway. Besides, you'll gain an extra couple seconds doing 0-60 without the extra weight. So all you wankers can stop now that all the specs are out on the web somewhere and put your money where your mouths are and buy one or buy something else. Just quit your wankin'. I'll have mine soon enough..... my gosh! It's a 2008 for Pete's sake. Get over it.

If you want more "sportive", buy a ZX-14... if you want more touring... buy a 1200RT or a Gold Wing... But if you want the BEST of both worlds, put your money down on a Concours (GTR) 14 and RIDE ON!

[Shortcircuit]

Originally Posted by 08CC14

Considering it's 44 pounds lighter than the ST1300.... I think the Connie will be just fine. I road tested the ST1300 as well as the 1200GT and FJR1300, they all pulled their own weight with little effort (pun intended). If you're wankin' about a few extra pounds here and there, go on a diet. If you're wankin' about an extra inch of seat height, buy some boots with heels. If you're wankin' about a gallon of gas, shut the hell up. My bladder won't go the full distance without a pitstop anyway. Besides, you'll gain an extra couple seconds doing 0-60 without the extra weight. So all you wankers can stop now that all the specs are out on the web somewhere and put your money where your mouths are and buy one or buy something else. Just quit your wankin'. I'll have mine soon enough..... my gosh! It's a 2008 for Pete's sake. Get over it.

If you want more "sportive", buy a ZX-14... if you want more touring... buy a 1200RT or a Gold Wing... But if you want the BEST of both worlds, put your money down on a Concours (GTR) 14 and RIDE ON!

08CC14

Well said!!!

[JamminJere]

+2.... I'm glad someone else has the same views as I do about all this 10-15pounds weight... oh its an obese slob crap.

The original Connie was 595 lbs...

Who wouldn't take a 20lb weight gain for almost 50hp and damn near twice the torque at the rear wheel.. PLUS all the other improvements... All less than 13K for non abs?...

come on whiners... lose some weight... go to the gym...

Jerry

[JamminJere]

As an aside.. I posted this on another forum just yesterday.. same topic.

Gee I dunno, realistically.. Where would have everyone liked to see a bike with all these new techno gadgets on them and the room and storage to weigh in at for a SPORT TOURER???

The original Concours weighed in at 595 lbs.

I think that anyone would love a 20 pound dry weight difference and pick up close to 50hp and almost twice the damn torque at the rear wheel from the A-1 version by the same name.

Couple that up with a new beefy shaft, a great looking frame neck and front end, a real braking system, better headlighting system alot of new techno stuff to improve performance and safety, And keep it under 13 grand for a non abs model...

What do some of you guys want?

A 1400cc bike made outta carbon fiber and titanium. weigh in at 400 lbs and of course safe enough for to be street legal for somewhere in the mid teen's?? in a major production model that can be made for the masses?

I'm sorry I'm just a little torqued on this but I just dont see the big deal between 10 or 20 pounds difference in weight on any bike from any manufacturer in the same class.

The difference in rider weight, luggage weight,how much fuel is in either bikes tank, did I **** this morning, did i take my water pill...

The point is, Nobody pushes their streetbikes to the extremes that would mean a pinch of **** if the bike was a couple pounds more or less one way or the other would have made the difference in a corner. If you do, well you'll prolly never read this anyway, either not able to read or dead by now.

Never let weight determine your buy... buy the bike that gives you wood and go have fun riding it to the level you enjoy.


See you on the road,

Jerry

[Jasperbob]

Well said, Jerry!

[SwedTourer]

Most powerful production sport tourer

As a former FJR owner ...I shure would like the GTR to weigh less and to have as much power as possible. Giving it a second thaught...i think the torque will do it...:) and also ..the handling of the bike.Furthermore,weight/hk ratio and Euro3 approved makes this sweet bike very reasonbly to inshure here in Sweden. About the fueltank/mile ratio...i think the VVS system will contribute to a fair fuel/mile ratio. Here is what the Swedish magazine wrote recently after having tested it for a coming issue..

Kawasaki have done it again!

A test of GTR1400 against Yamaha fjr1300a,Honda Pan European,BMW1200RT and 1200GThave secretly been carried out by (among others) the Swedish Bilsport and Mc on curvey roads and Autobahn in Germany. The GTR has been said to have raised the standard in the touring segment.Big selling concurrents modells will have a hard time to maintain there postions,now when the GTR is coming to Sweden.
The vendidors are expecting their demos at the end of July.One year vehicle damage insurance is included.

[Kaiser Soze]

Originally Posted by JamminJere

The original Concours weighed in at 595 lbs.
...
I'm sorry I'm just a little torqued on this but I just dont see the big deal between 10 or 20 pounds difference in weight on any bike from any manufacturer in the same class.
Jerry

The question of whether the C-14 is too heavy, is entirely subjective. As such, all opinions are valid and appropriate, as long as the opinions are directed at the bike itself, and are stated with appropriate tone.

Personally, I don't think it is especially useful or relevant to compare the C-14's weight with the weight of the original Concours. If that is relevant, then it should also be relevant to compare it with bikes made twenty years before that, during the middle of the Vietnam era, and twenty years earlier still, during the WWII era, and so on and so forth.

For that matter, it isn't particularly relevant that it weighs 140 lbs more than the ZX-14.

What is relevant, is how much is weighs in comparison to other similar modern bikes, which will not include either the original Concours or the ZX-14.

Assuming that Kawasaki UK is not telling a lie, the C-14 weighs 141 lbs more than the ZX-14. Please do not misunderstand that I am suggesting that the C-14 should be compared to the ZX-14. The difference in weight between the two can be applied to the wet weight of the ZX-14, as measured independently by Motorcycle Consumer News, to deduce a number that can be used to compare the weight of the C-14 with the FJR1300 and the ST1300. That is a useful comparison, and that comparison reveals that the C-14 will be about 25 lbs lighter than the ST1300, with about 5 lbs of that difference being accounted for by the difference in fuel capacity. Going the other direction, the C-14 will be about 20 lbs heavier than the present FJR1300A with ABS, and nearly 65 lbs heavier than the original FJR that was sold in the USA, without ABS. These comparisons are valid, but the interpretation as to how meaningful they are, is entirely subject to individual opinion. Some people don't care that much about the weight. Others do. Some people like to have their cake with their coffee, while others don't like coffee, and some don't even like cake. Sometimes the baker will put a little coffee into the icing on the cake, in which case the people who don't like coffee will often say, hopefully in a matter-of-fact tone, that they would have preferred that the baker had not put so much coffee in the cake icing. As long as the people who express that opinion do so in a reasonably civilized tone, I have no quarrel with that. But when someone then comes along and makes a big fuss over it, confronting those people for having expressed their displeasure with the amount of coffee in the cake icing, and calling them all a bunch of fat, whining obese slobs, that just seems unnecessary, and, dare I say, rude.

I just don't like motorcycles that weigh that much. In the past, I've owned bikes that weigh that much, and I've never liked them or kept them for long. I've had the FJR1300 for five years now (minus one month), and this is the longest that I've kept any bike that weighs as much as it weighs. Even though the ergos on my '97 CBR1100XX are inferior to the FJR, I've gone back to riding it mostly, with the main reason being that it weighs 80 lbs or so less than my FJR (although after accounting for the mounting hardware for the Givi luggage, the difference is probably more like 60 lbs, and the Heli bars don't contribute significant additional weight). My analysis of the C-14's wet weight will likely miss the mark by a few pounds plus or minus, but it is close enough for me to be confident that the C-14 will outweigh my '03 FJR by at least 50 lbs. To my way of thinking, that is significant.

[JamminJere]

[quote=Kaiser Soze;23657]

...............Personally, I don't think it is especially useful or relevant to compare the C-14's weight with the weight of the original Concours. If that is relevant, then it should also be relevant to compare it with bikes made twenty years before that, during the middle of the Vietnam era, and twenty years earlier still, during the WWII era, and so on and so forth..........


You are kidding me here right?

The comparison was solely because the bike has the same name, and for the pilots of the original Concours model looking at its replacement....




..........For that matter, it isn't particularly relevant that it weighs 140 lbs more than the ZX-14..........


No its not.. because again.. I was stating that 20 pounds difference between bikes in the SAME CLASS isn't a big deal.



......What is relevant, is how much is weighs in comparison to other similar modern bikes, which will not include either the original Concours or the ZX-14.......


Well the new FJR1300A is about 582lbs dry.... thats a whole 33 pounds difference.. and the ST is probably about the same amount more than the C1400.. again, we are talking about what? 3 to 5 percent difference in total weight.

And you can feel that difference on the street?..

Possibly how the weight is carried on different models may feel more top heavy... Maybe the steering head angle has a more or less heavy feel at slower speeds to achieve high speed stability...

But just going down the road accelerating, braking, in turns.. who the heck says.. ya know.. I think this is about 5 percent heavier.. man I just gotta ride something lighter.



......Some people don't care that much about the weight. Others do. Some people like to have their cake with their coffee, while others don't like coffee, and some don't even like cake. Sometimes the baker will put a little coffee into the icing on the cake, in which case the people who don't like coffee will often say, hopefully in a matter-of-fact tone, that they would have preferred that the baker had not put so much coffee in the cake icing. As long as the people who express that opinion do so in a reasonably civilized tone, I have no quarrel with that. But when someone then comes along and makes a big fuss over it, confronting those people for having expressed their displeasure with the amount of coffee in the cake icing, and calling them all a bunch of fat, whining obese slobs, that just seems unnecessary, and, dare I say, rude........



Sorry you lost me there... but I understand everyone has their own likings as to what they want in a motorcycle..

These are Full Size Sport-Tourers with around 150hp at the rear wheel, for two people to travel on in comfort, at speed. Gonna get one near the weight of a sport bike? Nope. I've never ridden while eating cake or coffee cake or drinking coffee at the same time and stopped on a scale to check if my bike weight was something I was in favor of, or displeased with. Have you ever stopped by a weight scale to check what your fully laden scoot is?

But like you said.. If you're not happy riding bikes that weigh alot, and dont feel comfortable handling the weight of those type bikes, (and please dont take this the wrong way) than I suggest you ride bikes of smaller weight and stature and be happy with that.

And I never insinuated anyone was a fat obese slob, I insinuated that people who whine about a weight difference that I highly doubt most of them could even feel in the real world should stop whining about it.. and just buy the bike that turns them on, and enjoy it. But hey.. If i joined a whining forum instead.. I can correct that too.

See you on the road,

Jerry

[08CC14]

Thanks for filling in the gaps Jerry. I was just trying to be brief. Like you said, buy whatever flips your skirt up and go have fun. I think its great to have "discussions" about specs and such but lately, most of the talk has turned to whinning and I couldn't take anymore. As far as being "rude"... I've seen too many middle-aged, gray-haired, wanna-be sport bike riders who well exceeded appropriate weight limits (+250lb?) riding sport bikes.... buy a Harley or Gold Wing PLEASE!!! If you've never ridden on a track, get off the sport bike and onto a touring bike. Anyway... here I go again... I'm done now. :)